First off may I say how pleased I am too see that a group of people are taking DoW and turning it into what it should have been anyway :rolleyes:

Im an avid tabletop player and was really exicted when I saw this mod of DoW Files hehe and after installing it I wasnt disapointed so nice work lads B)

Now to the topic ...

Playing a test match with friends the other day we noticed how hadrcore SM veteran squads were ... for example to test their stupidness we sent a fully upgraded possesed squad againts two types of Veteran squads the first with Lightning claws and the second with Power axe's.

Now the first round against the lightning claw squad (dont get me wrong I know how powerful lightning claws are) went very badly for the possesed marines ... losing their entire squad whislt only dealing one death to the Veterans (no reinforcing used).
The Second round against the Power Axe squad went just as bad for the possesed again losing all their squad for three deaths to the Veterans.

We thought this was all down to the fact that power weapons knock back a lot ... the possesed spent more time in the air than in combat so we tried using Obliterators against the dam Veterans to own them ... or so we thought ... the Obliterators were sent to the sky the same as the possesed although the OB's scored two kills before the Vet's got into combat ... from then on it was a massacre with the OB's only scoring one more kill in Close Combat.

Now my point is as you see ... Vet's are too overpowered me thinks.
I mean if you take into count the fact that the Possesed cost a hell of a lot plus upgrades (I cant remember if the Vets were cheeper ... I think they were) and also that the SM's can field as many squads of Vet's as they like (up to the cap) they just own all :(

(Im not a tabletop Chaos player before you say it btw :P)
(Also I didnt put this in bugs as its more of an idea .. nerf the SM Vet's hehe)

I don't have a codex with me, but IIRC Oblits sucks at melee... Might wait for a TT expert (or at least someone with a codex) for a better info though... :(

Veterans are extremely fragile (or will be again once ranged damage is fixed) - thus they are easy pickings from afar. Every dedicated CC unit is dangerous in CC.


Daton

=v=PhoeniX,

I think that the power weapons are represented very nicely. However, your possessed test is interesting. I agree with your cap idea.

Actually maybe they should be limited to 1-2 squads due to elite choice rules. This should perhaps be applied to all races with 2-3 elite choices thus making the presence of termies, ogryn, or oblitz all the more important.

Also, I think Methusalath's correct in that Oblitz are not cc specialists.

Well I agree that Oblitz are'nt CC specialists yes but they are like twice the size of a marine and should at least not be throw around as much as a standard troop ... thanks for the feedback btw :)

Im looking around the mod a little with my mates some more to see if I can find anything else thats need minor adjustments ;)

The problem might lie in their special attacks, not their weapons persay. You were saying that PSM spend alot of time in the air, so obviously the cculprit lies in said attacks or more specifically the fforce behind them.

I'll tinker around with their special attacks and see what can be done :)

I propose a test version with ALL knockback removed - just to check how it would play (I am pretty sure it would be more true to TT - unless artillery has a "shaken" chance which would be best represented as knockback - in which case artillery can keep the knockback and this text is being far too long for something in brackets)


Daton

not sure about that, I like knockback, doesn't feel right things not going flying :P Particulaly the Farser her strength has always been her knockback and so some rebalancing would be required. Equally the way teh CC mechanics in DoW work out artillery and disruption is a good counter to CC heavy armies.

If vets are too effective, firstly next release they will be more vulnerable to shooty and maybe a reduction in their rate of knocking back and such. Or mayne a cost increase.

Power Axe on Vets is for surely Overpowered... constantly flying heroes suck

Only power fist should have knockback as it sure is powerfull enough to do that.
Also I have noticed that Vets are hardcore building killers accompanied with their skill to own infantry, so I propose that special weapons would be limited to 3 or 2 (even in codex you can get only 2 special weapons) and/or move the fists to be upgraded from the temple etc.

Good idea that, so, I second nyyti's motion ;)

They're not hardcore unless upgraded - and when the power weaponeers are killed off, they're pointless vs buildings.

I like em exactly as they are :)

I really don't see a reason why SM Vets should do disruption, SM Sarges don't do that with power swords!
And do they really can take these weapons from SM armory?

Well I really don't know about this balance-wise, but one could think the disruption is due to their veteran status (tricks due to their experience in battle). It's not TT but then again disruption in general is not TT.

Also I like the idea about power fists doing disruption :)

Actually there is disruption in TT - pratically any weapon / ability that has a blast template - screws up unit coherency.

Eldritch Storm is a great example of this. It actually knocks any vehicles caught in it's AoE so hard that they point in random directions :blink:

power fist?

@Mirage: Ahhh, now I get it, nice explanation B)

But as was said, it does not account for powerfists, but the idea of powerfist doing knockback is neat. I mean seriously, the size of the thing is humongous :D

Anyhow back to the vet squad. Now that I'm home, I checked my codex and it says that vet squad has identical equipment with tacs, except for the terminator honours.

So where do the lightning claws and such come from? Chapter specific codexes? A newer version than mine?

Which version is your SM Codex? It's in mine.

Edit: Tbh, anything that looks like it should knock someone off their feet ought to do just that ;)