Title: Something that floating around.....
Description: and it's serious if it's true
Doc_2957 - February 29, 2008 01:31 PM (GMT)
I've been picking up bits and pieces of a rumor that's floated around for quiet some time now.
The scenario is intriguing to say the least and would have devastating effects on the US economy if this plays out as the truth.
The rumor in part is playing out before our eyes today and appears to be coming true.
OPEC will continue increasing production prices up to and over $125 per barrel. (Some say $150 per barrel is foreseeable) As the price crunch takes a toll on the US market place, the Iranians, who are building huge reserves and pumping at above capacity rates; will flood the World markets with cheap Oil and refined gas, bringing the Oil markets to their knees and totally collapsing the US economy.
And to further state the case, if no one has noticed this yet, several OPEC nations NO LONGER accept payment in American dollars. They have converted to and demand payment by the Euro.
Interesting to say the least............
Alfred E. Neuman - February 29, 2008 02:37 PM (GMT)
I haven't heard anything about an intentionally harmful plan by OPEC, and I keep my ear pretty clost to the ground when it comes to energy. I think the best site on the web to keep up with both what the oil world is doing and what the response is in terms of alternative development is
The Oil Drum.
Their main OPEC news is that
OPEC is unlikely to increase production in their meeting next week. These guys would ferrit it out if the failure to increase production was because of some nefarious scheme. The main way to tell would be to look at Iran's production numbers and their export numbers. If they want to flood the market, they'd have to be stocking up with excess supply to do it with.
I think the bigger question, and the one that's worrying more people is whether OPEC isn't wanting to up production because their largest producer, Saudi Arabia, CAN'T up production. There are serious concerns on wheter their Gwahar field has peaked. If that's the case, Saudi Arabia has peaked. Which pretty much means the world has peaked. There's not enough spare capacity in the entire rest of the world to make up for Gwahar declining.
Another thing that worries me about OPEC not wanting to up production right now is that it's in their best interests to do so. They depend on a strong U.S. economy to sell their oil. We burn 1/4 of all the oil in the wordl, and our economy directly influences ever other economy in the world. If we hit a prolonged recession, the world economy will follow suit. And demand will go in the toilet, taking prices with it.
Flight58 - February 29, 2008 02:49 PM (GMT)
What I don't understand is how cheap oil would collapse our economy.
I read about some countries switching to the euro, but to me that make sense seeing is how the euro is stronger and the value of the dollar is falling.
I figure that if oil countries increase production that it might be in response to green energy and alternate energy development?
Alfred E. Neuman - February 29, 2008 02:56 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Flight58 @ Feb 29 2008, 09:49 AM) |
What I don't understand is how cheap oil would collapse our economy.
I read about some countries switching to the euro, but to me that make sense seeing is how the euro is stronger and the value of the dollar is falling.
I figure that if oil countries increase production that it might be in response to green energy and alternate energy development? |
The weakening dollar is also one of the reasons oil prices are going up. When the dollar loses value, it takes more of them to buy the same amount of oil.
I don't think you'll see alternative energy creep into oil's market until it starts making major headway in the vehicle market. Most of the crude oil in the world goes to vehicle fuel. Over 2/3 of all the oil the U.S. burns is in our cars. Once the new plug in hybrids hit the marked and sell enough units to make a dent in gasoline demand, you'll see oil prices drop like a stone.
One reason is that there will simply be less demand for oil. The other reason is that OPEC will lower the price to try to kill the alternative vehicle market. We'll need a strong President and Congress at the time to keep moving our economy away from oil.
Doc_2957 - March 1, 2008 02:53 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Flight58 @ Feb 29 2008, 09:49 AM) |
What I don't understand is how cheap oil would collapse our economy.
I read about some countries switching to the euro, but to me that make sense seeing is how the euro is stronger and the value of the dollar is falling.
I figure that if oil countries increase production that it might be in response to green energy and alternate energy development? |
It's hard as hell to explain and you almost have to be a Harvard economist to fully understand exactly how it works, but in a nutshell, these markets are purchased weeks and months in advance and involve billions of dollars.
In return for our imports, these countries buy down our debt with their profits. A percentage at least.
So Iran declares independence from OPEC and floods the markets. The Oil companies are backed by investors looking for huge gains and invested heavily in these markets.
As Iran is flooding the markets, OPEC must lower prices to remain a player, thus collapsing the oil market.
When that market collapses, the investors lose billions in profits, Wall Street crashes and the ripple effect begins and carries over throughout the economy. Every single sector is effected.
We are also stuck with huge amounts of debt, that no one can purchase because their profits are gone from an over priced product they were exporting, along with paper currency that has no value, that the US government has to honor.
In the end when the debt is indexed, the losses are "absorbed", and our DEBT BASED economy is inflated, the paper in that dollar you have in your pocket is worth more than the amount printed on the denomination.
Not to mention the fact that your share of that debt will be somewhere around $500,000.00. Scary huh?
And btw, that dollar you have has less than $.02 value today.
To fully understand it all you would have to know and understand what the Federal Reserve is and how it operates. Our money is created out of thin air or a puff of smoke.
You can believe this if you wish, or not, doesn't matter to me, but this is a fact.
The US Government and the people of this country owe two and one half times the value of everything within the borders of the United States and that includes every home and all real estate INCLUDING all Federal and State Government buildings and all Federal and State park land.
And the Empire could crash at any time.
Doc_2957 - March 1, 2008 03:01 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Alfred E. Neuman @ Feb 29 2008, 09:37 AM) |
I haven't heard anything about an intentionally harmful plan by OPEC, and I keep my ear pretty clost to the ground when it comes to energy. I think the best site on the web to keep up with both what the oil world is doing and what the response is in terms of alternative development is The Oil Drum.
Their main OPEC news is that OPEC is unlikely to increase production in their meeting next week. These guys would ferrit it out if the failure to increase production was because of some nefarious scheme. The main way to tell would be to look at Iran's production numbers and their export numbers. If they want to flood the market, they'd have to be stocking up with excess supply to do it with.
I think the bigger question, and the one that's worrying more people is whether OPEC isn't wanting to up production because their largest producer, Saudi Arabia, CAN'T up production. There are serious concerns on wheter their Gwahar field has peaked. If that's the case, Saudi Arabia has peaked. Which pretty much means the world has peaked. There's not enough spare capacity in the entire rest of the world to make up for Gwahar declining.
Another thing that worries me about OPEC not wanting to up production right now is that it's in their best interests to do so. They depend on a strong U.S. economy to sell their oil. We burn 1/4 of all the oil in the wordl, and our economy directly influences ever other economy in the world. If we hit a prolonged recession, the world economy will follow suit. And demand will go in the toilet, taking prices with it. |
I knew you followed it closely, so I figure between us maybe we could find the missing link if this rumor is even remotely true.
I also heard some bad news concerning the new silicone based Li-Ion battery.
Our Imperial Federal Government has possibly purchased all information and technology in regards to future development and shut down any hopes for it ever reaching production. At least in the automotive industry.
All in the name of National Security.
Alfred E. Neuman - March 1, 2008 03:28 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Doc_2957 @ Feb 29 2008, 10:01 PM) |
I also heard some bad news concerning the new silicone based Li-Ion battery.
Our Imperial Federal Government has possibly purchased all information and technology in regards to future development and shut down any hopes for it ever reaching production. At least in the automotive industry.
All in the name of National Security. |
Here's a really good video of a Q& A session with Alexander Karsner (the undersecretary of renewable energy for the U.S.) and James Woolsey (former CIA dierctor and HUGE proponent of energy independence).
If you look to the right of the video, there's a list of chapters that let you skip directly to certain parts. One of the parts is "Battery Technology". Alexander says that the reason the Fed is taking over the new L-Ion battery developmen and rights is that a lot of the other renewable technologies we've developed have been shipped overseas. So we end up footing the bill to develop these things, then the rights get bought by some overseas company, then we have to pay to import them back into our country.
Their plan, supposedly, is still to push forward full speed with the battery technology to get it to us as fast as possible. They just want the developmen and production to stay on U.S. shores, using U.S. labor.
But take that with a grain of salt.
The entire video is well worth watching.
Doc_2957 - March 1, 2008 03:49 AM (GMT)
Thanks bud, I'll check that out.
And I don't trust the bastards. Suppression is too easy.
Flight58 - March 1, 2008 03:14 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Doc_2957 @ Feb 29 2008, 08:53 PM) |
| QUOTE (Flight58 @ Feb 29 2008, 09:49 AM) | What I don't understand is how cheap oil would collapse our economy.
I read about some countries switching to the euro, but to me that make sense seeing is how the euro is stronger and the value of the dollar is falling.
I figure that if oil countries increase production that it might be in response to green energy and alternate energy development? |
It's hard as hell to explain and you almost have to be a Harvard economist to fully understand exactly how it works, but in a nutshell, these markets are purchased weeks and months in advance and involve billions of dollars.
In return for our imports, these countries buy down our debt with their profits. A percentage at least.
So Iran declares independence from OPEC and floods the markets. The Oil companies are backed by investors looking for huge gains and invested heavily in these markets.
As Iran is flooding the markets, OPEC must lower prices to remain a player, thus collapsing the oil market.
When that market collapses, the investors lose billions in profits, Wall Street crashes and the ripple effect begins and carries over throughout the economy. Every single sector is effected.
We are also stuck with huge amounts of debt, that no one can purchase because their profits are gone from an over priced product they were exporting, along with paper currency that has no value, that the US government has to honor.
In the end when the debt is indexed, the losses are "absorbed", and our DEBT BASED economy is inflated, the paper in that dollar you have in your pocket is worth more than the amount printed on the denomination.
Not to mention the fact that your share of that debt will be somewhere around $500,000.00. Scary huh?
And btw, that dollar you have has less than $.02 value today.
To fully understand it all you would have to know and understand what the Federal Reserve is and how it operates. Our money is created out of thin air or a puff of smoke.
You can believe this if you wish, or not, doesn't matter to me, but this is a fact.
The US Government and the people of this country owe two and one half times the value of everything within the borders of the United States and that includes every home and all real estate INCLUDING all Federal and State Government buildings and all Federal and State park land.
And the Empire could crash at any time.
|
I don't see that happening. Oil is finate for one, but that's not a real big issue. Iran has pretty much nothing but oil to sell on world markets. Iran is going through tough economic times. They said the want to build nuke plants so they can make domestic electicity and sell more of their oil to help their messed up economy.
Iran has a lot of inflation. People over there are pretty much mad at their president.
If the crashed the market they would not have much income coming in.
Iran can't afford to crash the market.
I wouldn't mind seeing some investors lose money in oil though.
Take them down a peg or to.
Doc_2957 - March 3, 2008 01:18 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Flight58 @ Mar 1 2008, 10:14 AM) |
| QUOTE (Doc_2957 @ Feb 29 2008, 08:53 PM) | | QUOTE (Flight58 @ Feb 29 2008, 09:49 AM) | What I don't understand is how cheap oil would collapse our economy.
I read about some countries switching to the euro, but to me that make sense seeing is how the euro is stronger and the value of the dollar is falling.
I figure that if oil countries increase production that it might be in response to green energy and alternate energy development? |
It's hard as hell to explain and you almost have to be a Harvard economist to fully understand exactly how it works, but in a nutshell, these markets are purchased weeks and months in advance and involve billions of dollars.
In return for our imports, these countries buy down our debt with their profits. A percentage at least.
So Iran declares independence from OPEC and floods the markets. The Oil companies are backed by investors looking for huge gains and invested heavily in these markets.
As Iran is flooding the markets, OPEC must lower prices to remain a player, thus collapsing the oil market.
When that market collapses, the investors lose billions in profits, Wall Street crashes and the ripple effect begins and carries over throughout the economy. Every single sector is effected.
We are also stuck with huge amounts of debt, that no one can purchase because their profits are gone from an over priced product they were exporting, along with paper currency that has no value, that the US government has to honor.
In the end when the debt is indexed, the losses are "absorbed", and our DEBT BASED economy is inflated, the paper in that dollar you have in your pocket is worth more than the amount printed on the denomination.
Not to mention the fact that your share of that debt will be somewhere around $500,000.00. Scary huh?
And btw, that dollar you have has less than $.02 value today.
To fully understand it all you would have to know and understand what the Federal Reserve is and how it operates. Our money is created out of thin air or a puff of smoke.
You can believe this if you wish, or not, doesn't matter to me, but this is a fact.
The US Government and the people of this country owe two and one half times the value of everything within the borders of the United States and that includes every home and all real estate INCLUDING all Federal and State Government buildings and all Federal and State park land.
And the Empire could crash at any time.
|
I don't see that happening. Oil is finate for one, but that's not a real big issue. Iran has pretty much nothing but oil to sell on world markets. Iran is going through tough economic times. They said the want to build nuke plants so they can make domestic electicity and sell more of their oil to help their messed up economy.
Iran has a lot of inflation. People over there are pretty much mad at their president.
If the crashed the market they would not have much income coming in.
Iran can't afford to crash the market.
I wouldn't mind seeing some investors lose money in oil though.
Take them down a peg or to.
|
Better take off those rose colored glasses then bud, because People didn't see Pearl Harbor being blown to hell and back either........
And most folks don't believe this..........
http://www.stage6.com/Liberty/video/172749...Aaron-Russo-aviBut both are a fact
MAXED OUT!!!!!!!!!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4840432044369494646"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot
survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for
he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst
those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the
alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor
appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and
he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that
lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works
secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he
infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is
less to fear. The traitor is the plague." - Marcus Tullius Cicero [ancient
Roman scholar, lawyer, statesman and orator 106BC - 43BC]
Your country is being sold out from within............
Flight58 - March 3, 2008 07:01 PM (GMT)
That's tin-foil hat shit right there
BlackTalon - March 3, 2008 08:27 PM (GMT)
Alfred E. Neuman - March 3, 2008 09:38 PM (GMT)
Ron Paul is constantly handing Bernake a plate full of his ass.