I'll probably still post in the one over there, too, but I've always liked that thread as a training log and encouragement to myself and others.

Sooooo....post your training thoughts, articles and logs here.

Just got done with a CrossFit kettlebell certification this weekend. I'm totally freaking spent.

Our plans are to open our own CrossFit affiliate as soon as my wife is done with her school year here. There's already a CrossFit in Bellingham and we're trainers there, but I want my own gym where I can train people 100% in my methods. So now we're just looking at cities that suit us that don't currently have CrossFit affiliates.

Good luck with that, DF!

I've been thinking about fitness for life a little lately. You and I are at different extremes . . . maybe.

I don't think you get permafit for life by "exercising" and "dieting". I think you get permafit by having a passion for something that creates a fitness biproduct. I freakin' love racing my bike. So I eat well, (sort of) train as much as feasible, stay away from drinking too much and generally live a healthy lifestyle.

But it's the racing that motivates me, nothing else.

I was first thinking that you are more passionate about the fitness itself. But probably not. You are just like me, except that you find different sports to get passionate about. Even the lifting becomes sport for you. I don't think you do the cross fit to "get exercise". You do it for the competition, and that is your passion.

Regardless, I think people would be much better off if they focused their attention on finding a healthy activity that they really loved rather than trying to get motivated to just go to the gym, walk or whatever.

Call it the "City Slickers" theory of lifetime fitness.

"The One Thing"

You're right about CrossFit and why I love it. It's more than just a way to get into nearly the best overall condition that a human can get into, it gives people a reason to get to the gym.

Glassman is a genious when it comes to program design and the things that make humans for "fit", but I think his most perfect moment what when he turned the program into a sport of it's own. You'll get more output from people if they know they're trying to beat their friend or their time from the last time they did workout, or lift more weight than last time, etc. To quote Glassman "People will DIE for points".

Where I think you're wrong is that CrossFit IS for life. On the surface it looks like this hard core program to get fighters and other elite athletes into unbelievable shape at the cost of major suffering. But the reality is that it's scalable to every fitness level and age. All CrossFit does is take the basic movements that humans were designed to use to move themselves and external load, teach perfect mechanics, then use those movements to improve work capacity over broad time and modal domains (CrossFit's definition of "fitness").

No matter how old you are, you can improve from where you are, and you can work at your ability.

60th birthday Olymipic lifting workout. Humans SHOULD be able to do this.

Regardless, I think people would be much better off if they focused their attention on finding a healthy activity that they really loved rather than trying to get motivated to just go to the gym, walk or whatever.

You misinterpretted that! We are in total agreement. I also thing crossfit can be a sport for life.

As you said, the perfection is when the workout becomes the sport.

No reason why that can't be your "one thing".

Ahhh...gotcha.

The times that crossfit gets a bad rap is when people take it to the extreme, and that's the result of either no coaching or bad coaching. You can't push the envelope to new limits every single time you step up to the platform. It'll wear you down both physically and mentally.

Kinda like in cycling, if you burn too many matches too often you get stale and it stops being enjoyable.

Yep, we had that very conversation a while ago!

1 hour, 40 minutes of jiu jitsu. I am TIRED AS BLOODY EFFING HELL!!!!

Did well in drills and rolling. We learned a couple of bread and butter guard passes and a nice armbar, which was cool. My instructor just won his weight and belt class at the Pan Ams and was promoted to brown belt, which is really cool because he and I started at the other school together and I remember when he was promoted to purple (same month I was promoted to blue). So congratulations to him.

Good class for me, but I am deconditioned badly. I'm going to start doing more gi classes and running on my off days (I'll have to skip warmups in the gi classes because I'll be coming late).

You would not be referring to Charles Glassman would you?
If so the guy has trained Mr.Olympians and is the most esteemed character in resistance training..I have read lots by him..

Greg Glassman. He was a gymnastics coach who developed CrossFit in the 70's, but the only way you could get his systme is if you paid him to train you. He took it worldwide in 2001 with CrossFit.com.

VERY light treadmill workout today - 20 min. including warmup and light cooldown. Just wanted to get the cardio up a bit. I'm about to start training for the Peachtree.

Speaking of which, I'm thinking of using Higdon's 10K training plan. Any other suggestions?

Jdave, as athletically inclined as you are a 10k should be no problem for you. The mind must lead and the body will follow. Your training should start, although you already run, with base building miles, run slowly. As you keep track of your miles and times, preferably in a notebook you should start realizing an aerobic conditioning of your joints, legs and lungs. You should increase your base mileage including a weekly longer run for 2 months, and then start with some speed work, ie. track and fartleck runs, which are basically increasing your pace abit from say 1 stop sign to another, then returning to your normal pace. Running is mental, like swimming for so many. As a highschooler, I was forced to run for Football and even more as a wrestler, I hated it. Absolutely hated it. But my mind changed in college, I accepted it, then wanted to accel in it. My mind led the transformation.

Yeah, I got the "90 percent mental" thing when I went to 5/2 minute splits to running 14/1 splits to just running 30 minutes inside of 2 weeks. I figured out that the way to run 30 minutes without stopping was to, well, not stop.

Thanks for the advice. I've run/walked 10K a number of times already, but I'd like to do well for this one, plus I need to be in better shape just because the course is hilly.

Jdave, you say the word and I'll run the Peachtree with ya the whole way. I'll keep ya moving although I may spy an x-wife or girlfriend in stress along the way.

Do you have a race number?

If you're running anyway, definitely let me know. I'm looking forward to it. It's my first 10K. Probably should have picked an easier one, but what the hell -- you only live once, right?

I've always run my best races when my training wasn't running specific, but my work capacity was really high.

My best 5k times under 20 minutes all came when I was only running 400 and 800m sprints as part of other workouts. I'm betting total running was under 2k a week.

Last year I trained for 6 weeks just to run a 5k and didn't get anywhere near my PR.

So for me the key is just to have an enourmous amount of work capacity and the mechanics to sprint under extreme fatigue. The problem is that this type of training sucks balls.

Yeah, but the running coaches all stress mileage. I wonder if you don't need mileage to establish your "base" and then the cardio-specific, high threshold workouts to improve speed, performance, etc.?

I get a lot of hard cardio in jiu-jitsu, so I'll probably stick to a training plan for this one just to be sure I have the capacity to complete a 10K. Once I have a few under my belt, I may try this or, more likely, give it a shot for my next 5K.

Also, have you ever tried this type of workout for a 10K? I wonder if the extended distances don't require more of a mileage base. I'm of the opinion that anyone with half-decent cardio can run a 5K without training for it AT ALL.

True enough abt the track workouts. My best 5k times came in Biathons and tri's, when off the bike I went into a fast foot turnover from training hard. My anaerobic capacity was way up there so my feet just kept on turning over. I've had my best training doing 10-15 220's at a 5:45 mile pace, after 6 lap warm ups. My 220's got my pace fast and as I dropped my rest jog times down, so did my ability to recouperate on the run. Like hill training or riding hills, sprint up the smaller ones and continue cranking hard all the way to the top. This is a real downer when the hills take 45 minutes, like Hog Pen to complete.

That's one problem with Higdon's plan -- I need to incorporate some specific hillwork. I'll probably try to cut one of his 3 milers short during the week and end it with some hill repeats.

My wife's dad was a serious runner. He was super competetive regionally and placed OK nationally. He held a bunch of Masters records in Georgia for middle distance events, up to maybe 15k. He was a big mileage guy in the Galloway mold. He even coached a cross country athete who made it to the national championships in high school.

So when my wife started running he was all about the mileage. For a good 5k, he figured at least 25-30 miles a week, near 50 for a good 10k. She had good results, usually winning her age group at most local races and occasionally winning female overall.

A couple of years ago I got her to stop all running specific training and just do what I did. We went to a race early in the spring after a winter of nothing but following the CrossFit WOD, and she set a PR by over a minute. Her dad was shocked because he had been telling her the whole time that she wasn't preparing properly.

When we first move out here we did a 5 miler for a Christmas charity. I hadn't run a step farther than 800m at a time in months. And I ran it at sub 8 minute mile pace. The exra mile and a half to get to a full 10k wouldn't have been a problem.

So for my immediate empirical evidence, as long as running is done just enough to make sure mechanics are solid, and the running you do is at limit intensity, it's enough. As long as you're doing your other training at lung bursting intensity.

But a specific running plan is still an "easier" way to get results. Training like I do is tough. I know that if my "Helen" time is in the low 8 minute range, I can destroy a 5k and do alright in a 10k.

Al, have you ever run the Hogpen gap hill climb, always the coldest day of the year in January? Its for idiots, and I have done it 3 times. I think I do these races to punish myslef, cause the quads are just hammered. At 41 I'm beginning to see the detrius of my activities. I'm thinking abt tennis and golf as my twi light activities. What a bummer.

I had a pretty bad foot injury earlier this year because of bad running mechanics. I had a foot strike way out in front with a huge heel landing. This led to a stress injury in my right foot that took a month to heal.

Since then, I've looked into the POSE method of running. It changes the foot strike from in front of the body to directly under it, and stresses landing on the forefoot instead of the heal. Landing on the heal gives a braking effect with each stride and sends huge loads into the feet, legs, hips, and back.

But for the POSE method to work, foot turnover has to be really high. 90 strides per minute is the minimum recommended. That's 180 total foot strikes per minute. But getting used to that turnover has improved my running times.

I haven't, but my wife's dad has. He also used to run the Brastown Bald Buster. All 6 miles from the bottom of Jack's gap to the top of Brasstown.

I've only ever done those climbs on a bike. They suck bad enough at 8 MPH, they'd really suck at 2 MPH.

Damn, I'm starting to believe!

FWIW, Higdon does not stress uber-mileage like your father-in-law seems to. The longest mileage you'd RUN in a week under his plan is 10.5, with 105 minutes of cross training (which will easily be subsumed by my fighting schedules, though I may switch some to Muay Thai closer to the race to get more cardio in). It's just that he progresses you toward the 6.2 goal with a long run every weekend.

Can I find more info. on your methods at the CrossFit website? What specifically am I looking for?

Snake, you REALLY should consider jiu jitsu as a twilight activity.

If Helio Gracie can do it at 92 (yes, he still rolls), you can too.

You can find out about the CrossFit thoughts on how to run by clicking the "Running" link at the Exercise and Demo page.

As for which workouts to use, find the ones that involve some kind of weightlifting or calestenics combines with running.

Workouts like "Helen" will get your running speed up and take work capacity through the roof.

This guy runs an 8 minute mile including the 200 air squats he does during his run.

The thing that CrossFit has helped the most with my running comes just from the work capacity that their workouts give me. Even though it's not running, 20 rounds of "Cindy" in 20 mintues is a cardio puker like nothing else I've ever done.

Actually I was not accurate..His name is actually Charles Glass..It has been a while since I picked up an issue of Flex or Muscle & Fitness..My mistake.. 8955

Roger that Jdave. I think you'r right. As I've been out of Martial Arts for such a long time I feel my balance and mostly flexibility waning. What gym are you training at? I need to actually make that switch Back. I enjoyed it way too much.

I've done those on a bike as well, and I have too say its easier to go slower, running than on my bikes. I needed my mnt bike to get up brasstown. What a kick in the azz. I did the 6 gap 100+ miler 2 years ago and I A. Froze. B. Bonked. & C. had to zig zag going up Hogpen, which I believe was the 4th Gap. Going back in to Dahlonega I was mindless, exhausted and swearing profusely. Total time on the bike 7 hours, 18 minutes. I did not know my buddies who talked me into doing this and I had only planned on doing the 3 gap 50 miler, stopped somewhere for an hour and a half and naped and had lunch. Man I was pizzed. I may never volunteer to do that again.

I'm at Alpha, which is WAAAY the hell out in Hiram. The closest places to you would be KnuckleUp or Alliance in Sandy Springs, or maybe the KnuckleUp in Woodstock (given where you are, I'd guess Sandy Springs would be WAY closer).

If you look at KnuckleUp, let me know. My old instructor, Junior Assuncao, still teaches there, I think, and I can hook you up with Jim and he can get you started up there. I don't know anyone at Alliance, but they are a fantastic school. A bit pricey, though.

Thanks Jdave. Its in the cards this year. I have a climbing buddy who rolls in Sandy Springs. The guy is tough as nails and good to have arnd in a pinch.

I've used Hal Higdon's training quite a bit and it's worked great. It's nice because it's not enormous amounts of mileage, and there's enough cross training to keep it interesting.

I have always had a huge problem with getting out of sport specific shape. I used to swim 10+ miles a day, yet couldn't run a mile without thinking I was going to drop dead. It's the same thing with running now. I'm just not able to translate other exercising into being in shape for running. If I stop running for a few weeks, it takes me a while to get back into running shape.

I'm building my base now to begin training for a 1/2 marathon that I'm running in November in Big Sur. Should be interesting.

Hey, girl! Thanks for coming over!

Yeah, I'm going to give it a shot. I'm kind of in the same boat now -- not in good running shape. The good news is I can usually get back up to speed quickly.

Good luck at Big Sur. Let us know how you do.

I have thought about running a 1/2 marathon , but my size prevents me from doing so..
I would have to drop some weight to do it cause I take a beating in the calves while jogging , and that is at a very moderate pace..Something I may have to try one day..

Work up to it -- don't just jump into 13.1.

When you're running 10Ks with little pain and good effort, consider GRADUALLY increasing your long runs and weekly mileage to the point your joints are acclimated to the pounding. Cross-train frequently, but you NEED a certain amount of roadwork if you are going to run a road race, so don't neglect that.

I had about 5 min. jiu jitsu today. We had a belt ceremony (I did not get promoted, nor did I remotely expect to), with open mat at the end, so I rolled for a few minutes with the instructor. To make up for it, I'm going to try to fit a run in tomorrow. Probably just 30 min. or so. I'll hit the gym again Monday.

Weird, but tough, training yesterday.

Had to do 15-12-9 reps of full Clean & Jerk. Bar could not be rested on the groud at all during any round, not even to re-grip it. So I had to do 15 straight C&J with only a touch and go on the floor between each rep. I could rest as needed between rounds.

The load was up to me, so there was some gaming going on with other people as to how much weight to use. Pick a weight you knew you could get, and some other dude might lift more and make fun of you. Pick too much and you couldn't finish the reps.

I did 115# for 15 reps, 125# for 12 reps, and 135# for 9 reps. There was much sweating and swearing. Had to move the bar to my back to rest several times.

Sucked. But got all my reps without setting it down.

I have been jogging for over a year now..I hit a certain point and it is time to call it quits..shinsplints from hell take over..I have marked it down to my size causing to much strain on my everything below the knee..I think their is just to much force being asorbed there..I wish that was not the case but I am convinced it is..

Hey Saturday, welcome aboard!


(Just wandered in here accidentally. I don't do the fitness thing, unless you count 12 oz. curls.)

Probably a combination of things. Weight definitely comes into play, but I'd bet your calves and quads are deconditioned as well. I have the problem with shinsplints when I start, and I've had fits with my knees, gastrocnemeus (top of the calf where it connects to the knee joint) and plantar fascia. When that happens, you're overdoing it. You have to back off and come back at it with less intensity.

BTW, have you ever been fitted for shoes? I recently went to Phiddippides (at saturday's recommendation, BTW), and got stride tested and fitted. They put me up a full shoe size over normal (I was wearing 1/2 size larger than normal and they went up another 1/2 size), and they put me in a neutral cushioning shoe, when I had been in a moderate stability shoe. I still have some problems with medial knee pain, but the other stuff has basically disappeared. If you have never been fitted, get to Phiddippides or Fleet Feet and get fitted.

Also, walk more. I am not of the Galloway "take frequent walk breaks" school of thought, but if I am overdoing it, rather than cut distance, I just walk more. It allows you to strengthen and condition the joints and muscles without giving them the long pounding they get running the whole way. Then, build up to running as your body gets used to it.

SATURDAY!!! You have NO idea how happy I am to see you here!!! 3452jjj
Big Sur sounds amazing - I'm sure you'll do great!

I slacked last week, and I think my grand total for running was 12 miles. I'm going to pretend I'm an old lady and count the three hours of gardening as activity...