| QUOTE (Alfred E. Neuman @ Apr 7 2008, 04:44 PM) |
| Mexico's Cantarell field is in pretty sharp decline. The North Sea is seeing deline rates of over 4% per year. Saudia Arabia is drilling holes in Ghawar as fast as possible to keep production up, but they're still unable to do anything other than maintain current levels as the old wells are producing less. Things are not looking good on the global oil front. Some people will run in here and say that we just found 500 billion barrels under the Dakotas and Montana. But in reality all we've done is move that oil from the unconventional to conventional. The recovery rates on that field are at best going to be 10-20% because of how the oil is distributed, not to mention a very low EROEI because of the technology needed to get at it, and the fact that overall rate of productions aren't expected to be high due to those same limitations. Just about the best we could hope for the Bakken field is to somewhat mitigate deline rates in other fields. Or we could get our heads out of our asses and get down to some real solutions. |
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| For individuals interested in making other arrangements, it's time to start acquiring myriad requisite skills. It is far too late to save civilization for 300 million Americans, much less the rest of the planet's citizens, but we can take joy in a purpose-filled, intimate life. |
| QUOTE (BrockSamson3000 @ Apr 7 2008, 04:36 PM) |
| A movie I really need to see: The End of Suburbia http://www.endofsuburbia.com/ http://www.endofsuburbia.com/preview1.htm |
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| After all, no alternative energy sources scale up to the level of a few million people, much less the 6.5 billion who currently occupy Earth. Oil is necessary to extract and deliver coal and natural gas. Oil is needed to produce solar panels and wind turbines, and to maintain the electrical grid. Ninety percent of the oil consumed in this country is burned by airplanes, ships, trains and automobiles. You can kiss goodbye groceries at the local big-box grocery store: Our entire system of food production and delivery depends on cheap oil. |
| QUOTE (Alfred E. Neuman @ Apr 7 2008, 04:56 PM) | ||||
End of Suburbia is just about spot on with what we're about to see. Most people don't understand just how addicted we are to oil, how ingrained it is in everything we do, and how drastically life cahnges when it becomes scarce. It's funny that America was sold an entire way of life that was completely unsustainable for anything more than a hundred years.
I disagree that no alternative scales up to meet oil. Solar easily does it. Wind easily does it. Nuclear easily does it. Those three combined have no problem powering the nation forever. The problem is getting serious about making that switch while there's still enough spare oil to do it. Since 90% of all the oil we burn goes to vehicles, that's the obvious place to start. Get some legislation with some teeth. Set CAFE standard that matter - 65 MPG to start. Set federal standards for EVs and mandate that a certain % of all vehicles sold will be zero emmissions vehicles. Rebuild our rail system so we can move goods efficiently rather than trucking them all over the country at 3 MPG. We have the technology right now to do this. It doesn't have to develop for another second. We just have to use it. |
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| Why do we need to reduce our use of fossil fuels? Renewable and efficient energy technology will have to replace fossil fuels far faster than most people currently anticipate. The reason is the combined impact of two key problems that will shape the 21st century: peak oil and climate change. A premature topping point in global oil production would wipe out economic plans currently on offer in boardrooms and finance ministries around the world. This is because such plans assume growing supplies of affordable oil for several decades to come. But as former U.S. Energy Secretary James Schlesinger recently concluded, “we can’t continue to make supply meet demand much longer. It’s no longer the case that we have a few voices crying in the wilderness. The battle is over. The peakists have won.” Among the main escape clauses for peaking oil supply, according to traditional energy experts, are the mining of Canada’s vast tar sand deposits, and coal-to-liquids technology. Using the tar sands would require massive amounts of water and gas. Coal - to- liquids technology is similarly greenhousegas profligate, though here—as with regular coal burning—advocates hold up the prospect of carbon capture and storage, where emissions are buried underground. Of this prospect Schlesinger has concluded that, “it will take at least 15 to 20 years to introduce, if then.” But according to NASA’s top climatologist, we have less than a decade to deeply cut emissions. If we don’t, we risk climate horrors such as an irreversible melting of the Greenland ice sheet, which would lock-in a global sea level rise of up to 23 ft. (7 m). Can renewable and efficient technology reduce our dependence on fossil fuels? Here there is good and bad news. Yes, we can run the world on renewables and efficiency. Any self-respecting solar energy company— hooked up with the right partners—can put up zero carbon buildings in a matter of weeks. Around 50% of CO2 emissions come from buildings, directly or indirectly. Meanwhile, as traditional power prices soar, solar manufacturing costs are falling. But solar is no panacea. We need an explosive growth in all renewable and efficient energy markets. In Britain, for example, we have the potential to source all of our primary energy from wind and marine technologies. Knowing what the renewables family can do, imagine the frustration that practitioners like me feel having watched these technologies held back during the great addiction to fossil fuels. What will happen if the world doesn’t embrace renewable energy? The bad news is that no combination of technologies can plug the energy gap if the peakists are correct. There will be a third, and last, global energy crisis. It will dwarf previous crises. Profound economic dislocation will result. The challenge for human civilization will be how we rebuild post-peak. If we mobilize with renewables and efficiency, as though for war, we have the potential to achieve a renaissance on many fronts. If we forget climate change and go for coal and tar sands, we will achieve the opposite. A few hundred billion tons of coal and tar sand could cause economically ruinous, and irreversible, climatic impacts. That would amount to a fraction of remaining coal and tar sand deposits, even if the experts have overestimated those “resources” the same way they have conventional oil. “We need an explosive growth in all renewable and efficient energy markets.” |
| QUOTE (Alfred E. Neuman @ Apr 7 2008, 05:00 PM) |
| If you ever wanted to see just how eaily we could end our dependence on foreign oil and set ourselves up for a sustainable economy, Scientific American lays it out: A Grand Solar Plan A plan to run the nation on solar by 2050. And that's just using one carbon free fuel sourse. Add in wind and nuclear and we could do it in much less time for much less money. All while creating jobs for Americans and growing our economy. |
| QUOTE (BrockSamson3000 @ Apr 8 2008, 11:11 AM) |
| With the potential consequences of Peak Oil, do you think 2050 as a timetable is soon enough? It would seem to me that this country should undergo a drastic 1 decade plan, involving a fairly isolationist outlook (only in the short-term) that would allow us to fund a revolutionary new means of existence for this country. Only when we have achieved that should we attempt to become world players again. |
| QUOTE (Alfred E. Neuman @ Apr 8 2008, 12:06 PM) | ||
I would personally like to see a national effort to ramp up alternatives, revamp our rail system, and bring in vehicle efficiency technology so that we're off of foreign oil in a decade. Even going so far as to have a moratorium on imported oil - every year we will limit imports to 10% less than in the base year so that in a decade we simply could not import oil. This would mean that a combination of alternatives and efficiency would need to be brought on line every year equivalent to 10% of our foreign oil imports plus whatever amount our economy grows. It would be TOUGH, but do able if we were serious about the efficiency end. Efficiency will be the key in the short term until energy production gets ramped up. We'll have to be able to get more done with less energy - moving people and goods, producing goods, and running buildings. The good news is that efficiency is by far and away cheaper than making new power. It's less than half the cost to remove a megawatt of demand through efficiency than to produce a megawatt of power. Realistically, the 2050 timeframe is well within that which would keep our economy strong and avoid peak oil catastrophy. Remember that the U.S. burns 25% of all the oil in the world every day. If we set about removing our demand, it has a dramatic effect on world demand. All we need to do is be able to make up the 1-2% slide in the difference between world production and U.S. demand. I also think that once alternatives are able to offer energy cheaper than fossil fuels, the chance will happen much quicker than 2050. It could litterally be a decade even without a moratorium on imports. Just the free market finding out that there's a better way. |
| QUOTE (BrockSamson3000 @ Apr 8 2008, 12:55 PM) |
| I gotta say, hearing that from you is reassuring, even if I have little faith. I'm just scared it is going to take catastrophe before the nation as a whole, and those elected to lead it, wake up and make real changes. |
| QUOTE (Alfred E. Neuman @ Apr 8 2008, 01:04 PM) | ||
I pretty much have to take that point of view, otherwise I get so depressed .... !ff/: No shit. |
| QUOTE (BrockSamson3000 @ Apr 9 2008, 02:34 PM) |
| Well, I finally did it. I sat and read Matt Savinar's entire webpage. Bad idea. I think I'm gonna go home, get drunk as hell, and tomorrow buy some arable land in the middle of nowhere, and hopefully learn how to hunt, fish, and farm. Oh, and somewhere along the way find a purdy lady to accompany me. :( |
| QUOTE (Alfred E. Neuman @ Apr 15 2008, 11:11 AM) |
| Another great way to store electricity is to convert it into compressed air. While it's not as efficient as the molten salt method of storing solar heat, it works with every single form of renewable electricity generation. Basically, excess electricity produced when the sun is shining or the wind is blowing is used to run an air compressor. Air is compressed in giant underground caverns excavated specifically for the purpose of holding this air. This is no problem because that's already how we store pressurized natural gas. During the night or when the wind isn't blowing, the air is released to run a turbine generator to make power for the grid. We don't need a technology breakthrough. We need to have the balls to use what we've got right now. |
| QUOTE (BrockSamson3000 @ Apr 15 2008, 10:35 AM) | ||
I just heard of the sand and/or water method of holding heat. Seems neat. The compressed air technique sounds really good too. But do we have the balls...? |
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| In this new world order, energy will govern our lives in new ways and on a daily basis. It will determine when, and for what purposes, we use our cars; how high (or low) we turn our thermostats; when, where, or even if, we travel; increasingly, what foods we eat (given that the price of producing and distributing many meats and vegetables is profoundly affected by the cost of oil or the allure of growing corn for ethanol); for some of us, where to live; for others, what businesses we engage in; for all of us, when and under what circumstances we go to war or avoid foreign entanglements that could end in war. |
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| This leads to a final observation: The most pressing decision facing the next president and Congress may be how best to accelerate the transition from a fossil-fuel-based energy system to a system based on climate-friendly energy alternatives. |
| QUOTE (Alfred E. Neuman @ Apr 18 2008, 11:21 AM) |
| Imagine how quickly we could end this problem if every year the output of solar, wind, nuclear, geothermal, and tidal doubled the previous year. |
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| The discoveries do suggest that the gloomiest pundits are wrong to predict that the world will soon run out of oil. |
| QUOTE (Alfred E. Neuman @ Apr 18 2008, 11:36 AM) | ||
This line shows that there is still very little understanding of what peak oil is. We're not going to run out of oil. We'll still be able to pump it out of the ground 500 years from now. What is happening is that we've gotten all the oil that's easy to extract. And we can't make up for the decline in these easy to develop fields with smaller discoveries in harder to produce areas. We've reached a peak in oil production. And since the world economy is built on increasing access to cheap oil, the world economy collapses when the cheap oil is gone. We're there now. |
| QUOTE (BrockSamson3000 @ Apr 18 2008, 11:31 AM) | ||
What do you know about tidal energy? When I first heard about it I was very excited, but I've read that it is a rather limited energy source for the US due to limited areas where it can be used effectively. Is it a matter of funding better tidal research to improve efficiency, or is it simply going to be one of the smaller pieces of the puzzle? |
| QUOTE (Alfred E. Neuman @ Apr 18 2008, 11:45 AM) | ||||
It's going to be a small part. The areas where it's best suited are in places that have high tidal shifts and some channel to focus the tidal waters through. The PNW has some great tidal power areas because we have huge tidal fluctuations and the San Juan islands channel that flow into concentrated areas as it leaves Puget Sound. In this case, you simply have turbines on the ocean's floor that capture the water flowing by just like a wind turbine does with wind. Except the tide is nearly always either coming in or going out, so you're nearly always making power. An idea that has more widesrpead promise is wave power. There are several designs that take advantage of waves to make power. Either way, they could both be a piece of the puzzle. But solar, wind, and nuclear are the big dogs. Just the Mojave desert has enough solar potential to power the entire country. Just Montana, Colorado, North and South Dakota, Iowa, and Texas have enough developable wind to power the entire country. Add in nuclear and we'd be home free in less than a decade. |
| QUOTE (BrockSamson3000 @ Apr 18 2008, 11:52 AM) |
| I've heard the problem with nuclear is a Uranium Peak. |
| QUOTE (Alfred E. Neuman @ Apr 18 2008, 12:04 PM) |
| With breeder reactors that's litterally over a thousand years away. Even with a combination of regular fission reactors and breeder reactors, we could ramp up nuclear for the next few hundred years before we even dented our uranium supply. I'm a huge fan of nuclear. It's clean, reliable, and carbon free. If I were given free reign to direct our energy policy, we'd have a baseline of nuclear capacity that could smooth the renewables from solar and wind. The backbone of our energy would be solar from the sun belt from California all the way to Florida. that would give us nearly 18 hours of sun shining on our collectors every day from dawn in Florida to dusk in California. We'd store the excess capacity in either melted salts to boil water to turn turbines at night, or in underground caverns as compressed air to turn turbines at night. We'd get our wind from the midwest and the coasts. The extra capacity would be stored as compressed air just like from solar. By 2020 we could be off of foreign energy. Shortly thereafter we could be fossil fuel free. |