Survive??????????

Duck and Cover: It’s the New Survivalism


By ALEX WILLIAMS
New York Times
Published: April 6, 2008

THE traditional face of survivalism is that of a shaggy loner in camouflage, holed up in a cabin in the wilderness and surrounded by cases of canned goods and ammunition.

It is not that of Barton M. Biggs, the former chief global strategist at Morgan Stanley. Yet in Mr. Biggs’s new book, “Wealth, War and Wisdom,” he says people should “assume the possibility of a breakdown of the civilized infrastructure.”

“Your safe haven must be self-sufficient and capable of growing some kind of food,” Mr. Biggs writes. “It should be well-stocked with seed, fertilizer, canned food, wine, medicine, clothes, etc. Think Swiss Family Robinson. Even in America and Europe there could be moments of riot and rebellion when law and order temporarily completely breaks down.”

Survivalism, it seems, is not just for survivalists anymore.

Faced with a confluence of diverse threats — a tanking economy, a housing crisis, looming environmental disasters, and a sharp spike in oil prices — people who do not consider themselves extremists are starting to discuss doomsday measures once associated with the social fringes.

They stockpile or grow food in case of a supply breakdown, or buy precious metals in case of economic collapse. Some try to take their houses off the electricity grid, or plan safe houses far away. The point is not to drop out of society, but to be prepared in case the future turns out like something out of “An Inconvenient Truth,” if not “Mad Max.”

“I’m not a gun-nut, camo-wearing skinhead. I don’t even hunt or fish,” said Bill Marcom, 53, a construction executive in Dallas.

Still, motivated by a belief that the credit crunch and a bursting housing bubble might spark widespread economic chaos — “the Greater Depression,” as he put it — Mr. Marcom began to take measures to prepare for the unknown over the last few years: buying old silver coins to use as currency; buying G.P.S. units, a satellite telephone and a hydroponic kit; and building a simple cabin in a remote West Texas desert.

“If all these planets line up and things do get really bad,” Mr. Marcom said, “those who have not prepared will be trapped in the city with thousands of other people needing food and propane and everything else.”

Interest in survivalism — in either its traditional hard-core version or a middle-class “lite” variation — functions as a leading economic indicator of social anxiety, preparedness experts said: It spikes at times of peril real (the post-Sept. 11 period) or imagined (the chaos that was supposed to follow the so-called Y2K computer bug in 2000).

At times, a degree of paranoia is officially sanctioned. In the 1950s, civil defense authorities encouraged people to build personal bomb shelters because of the nuclear threat. In 2003, the Department of Homeland Security encouraged Americans to stock up on plastic sheeting and duct tape to seal windows in case of biological or chemical attacks.

Now, however, the government, while still conducting business under a yellow terrorism alert, is no longer taking a lead role in encouraging preparedness. For some, this leaves a vacuum of reassurance, and plenty to worry about.

Esteemed economists debate whether the credit crisis could result in a complete meltdown of the financial system. A former vice president of the United States informs us that global warming could result in mass flooding, disease and starvation, perhaps even a new Ice Age.

“You just can’t help wonder if there’s a train wreck coming,” said David Anderson, 50, a database administrator in Colorado Springs who said he was moved by economic uncertainties and high energy prices, among other factors, to stockpile months’ worth of canned goods in his basement for his wife, his two young children and himself.

Popular culture also provides reinforcement, in books like “The Road,” Cormac McCarthy’s novel about a father and son journeying through a post-apocalyptic wasteland, and films like “I Am Legend,” which stars Will Smith as a survivor of a man-made virus wandering the barren streets of New York.

Middle-class survivalists can also browse among a growing number of how-to books with titles like “Dare to Prepare!” a self-published work by Holly Drennan Deyo, or “When All Hell Breaks Loose” by Cody Lundin (Gibbs Smith, 2007), which instructs readers how to dispose of bodies and dine on rats and dogs in the event of disaster.

Preparedness activity is difficult to track statistically, since people who take measures are usually highly circumspect by nature, said Jim Rawles, the editor of www.survivalblog.com, a preparedness Web site. Nevertheless, interest in the survivalist movement “is experiencing its largest growth since the late 1970s,” Mr. Rawles said in an e-mail, adding that traffic at his blog has more than doubled in the past 11 months, with more than 67,000 unique visitors per week. And its base is growing.

“Our core readership is still solidly conservative,” he said. “But in recent months I’ve noticed an increasing number of stridently green and left-of-center readers.”

One left-of-center environmentalist who is taking action is Alex Steffen, the executive editor of www.worldchanging.com, a Web site devoted to sustainability. With only slight irony, Mr. Steffen, 40, said he and his girlfriend could serve as “poster children for the well-adjusted, urban liberal survivalist,” given that they keep a six-week cache of food and supplies in his basement in Seattle (although they polished off their bottle of doomsday whiskey at a party).

He said the chaos following Hurricane Katrina served as a wake-up call for him and others that the government might not be able to protect them in an emergency or environmental crisis.

“The ‘where do we land when climate change gets crazy?’ question seems to be an increasingly common one,” said Mr. Steffen in an e-mail message, adding that such questions have “really gone mainstream.”

Many of the new, nontraditional preparedness converts are “Peakniks,” Mr. Rawles said, referring to adherents of the “Peak Oil” theory. This concept holds that the world will soon, or has already, reached a peak in oil production, and that coming supply shortages might threaten society. While the theory is still disputed by many industry analysts and executives, it has inched toward the mainstream in the last two years, as oil prices have nearly doubled, surpassing $100 a barrel. The topic, which was the subject of a United States Department of Energy report in 2005, has attracted attention in publications like The New York Times Magazine and The Wall Street Journal, and was a primary focus of “Megadisasters: Oil Apocalypse,” a recent History Channel special.

Another book, “The Long Emergency” (Atlantic Monthly Press, 2005), by James Howard Kunstler, an author and journalist who writes about economic and environmental issues, argues that American suburbs and cities may soon lay desolate as people, starved of oil, are forced back to the land to adopt a hardscrabble, 19th-century-style agrarian life.

Such fears caused Joyce Jimerson of Bellingham, Wash., a coordinator for a recycling-composting program affiliated with Washington State University, to make her yard an “edible garden,” with fruit trees and vegetables, in case supplies are threatened by oil shortages, climate change or economic collapse. “It’s all the same ball of wax, as far as I’m concerned,” she said.

Scott Troyer, an energy consultant in Sunnyvale, Calif., said he was spurred by discussions of peak oil — “it’s not a theory,” he said — and other energy concerns to remake his suburban house in anticipation of a petroleum-starved future. Mr. Troyer, 57, installed a photovoltaic electricity system, a pellet stove and a “cool roof” to reflect the sun’s rays, among other measures.

Mr. Troyer remains cautiously optimistic that Americans can wean themselves from oil through smart engineering and careful planning. But, he said, “the doomsday scenarios will happen if people don’t prepare.”

Some middle-class preparedness converts, like Val Vontourne, a musician and paralegal in Olympia, Wash., recoil at the term “survivalist,” even as they stock their homes with food, gasoline and water.

“I think of survivalists as being an extreme case of preparedness,” said Ms. Vontourne, 44, “people who stockpile guns and weapons, anticipating extreme aggression. Whereas what I’m doing, I think of as something responsible people do.

“I now think of storing extra food, water, medicine and gasoline in the same way I think of buying health insurance and putting money in my 401k,” she said. “It just makes sense.”

Driven by many factors, and it is a possible scenario, WHAT IF there were a total collapse in the United States?

If the dam busted wide open and everything went to hell in a bucket, almost overnight, what would you do?

Could you provide for your family and how?????

Here's what people don't think about, or either don't want to know:
If all hell really broke loose, we're all screwed. Once you ran out of your few month's supply of food, you'll starve unless you live where you can grow or hunt for your long term needs. And that's damn few people.

Take away the massive amount of cheap energy that goes into our daily lives, and this country could support maybe a tenth of its population. Maybe even less. And the knowledge to produce food without oil is nearly gone. We have to have genetically modified seeds with special fertilizers, herbicides, and pesticides, all farmed with equipment fueled by diesel. And all of this "food" then needs to be shipped to the people using diesel fuel. Take that away and you'd have starvation that makes Ethiopia in the 80's look like good times.

Our next locaiton will be in a sparsly populated state with plenty of wilderness in case the worst happens. But anyone living in a major city is as good as dead if our energy situation goes critical.

There's a cool saying that "Civilization is exaclty four meals away from anarchy". And that's the truth. Witness Katrina.

Let the oil supply get disrupted enough to disrupt the food supply and you'll see riots the likes of which the world has never witnessed.

And to those who have a few month's worth of food in their basement in a major city I ask: How do you plan on KEEPING that food? When a couple of million starving people come looking for your food, they'll get it.

You're right about the metropolitan folks, they would be fuked beyond imagination. Many others that live on the fringes would be as well.

Not being that far away from Metro, at the time, I would probably have a struggle to get out, but one farm is well secluded, the other has ample area to see intruders before they get to us.

As far as food, wild game is abundant and several lakes are well stocked with a variety of fish. I was taught to hunt and fish at an early age and it was a way of life at one time. Along with the fact we allow the last beans from our gardens to sun dry on the vine, then store those shelled in canisters or in the hull in burlap bags. They re-hydrate in a few hours in a pot of warm water.

And speaking of pots, those cast iron dutch ovens and stainless steel stock pots come in handy in the outdoors.

Some of our seeds are also taken from the previous years plants, but we buy nothing that's modified to the point it would require special fertilizers. Cow manure is also abundant, but most of our planted areas are very rich soils to begin with, so little additives would be needed.

There's about $100 worth of seed sitting beside my desk right now that was left over from last year, and we just bought another large selection last week and have even more ordered. In the event of a foreseeable collapse, the first item on the list would be seed, and plenty of them.

Fuel storage (gas and diesel) in mass quantities is no problem, but renewing that once it was used up would be impossible. Those old plow stocks that sit around rusted may be for looks right now, but they could go into use in a heart beat. And those mules grazing out there in those fields, they would learn to pull them rather quickly.

I remember watching my Grand Dad plow a mule when I was a kid and rubbed many a blister on my hand using a hoe to remove weeds and grass. It's rough as hell and hard ass work, but in the name of survival, nothing is beneath being done.

There's plenty of wooded areas around the farms for natural roots, herbs and berries. It may not be what you want to eat, but at least you wouldn't starve.

The one positive in any of it would be both farms are free and clear as far as the land and buildings go. Even in a worse case scenario, several barns could be converted to house additional family if need be. I have a couple of old wood burning heaters and people are always asking why I keep them. I always say, "You never know when you may need one." Those could be used for heat as well as cooking.

Protection?????

Well I ain't saying what's available, but I will say "some of" the stuff we have will, like the old long distance commercials used to say; "Reach out and touch someone." Rapidly. And needless to say, ammo isn't a problem, it's the least of my concerns.

The old saying, "you can take the boy out of the country, but you can't take the country out of the boy" holds true. We may go down, but it won't be because we sat on our asses and perished.

All that concrete and steel may be lovely now, but I think there will be a day when it does become the demise of many people. How far away that day is, no one knows. I think it'll be sooner than later ..................

I do not have a problem with the ability and know how to grow food if the day arises, that my family may have to depend solely on the worlds flow of goods.
What I do have a problem with and I believe the states too will have this problem,
if the day comes that of which you speak, defending what I do have will be of the most concern. Fighting off the refugee's of the metro area will certainly put me in a panic.

My solution would be to educate those in the way of farming, but I feel many would rather kill me for my food today than save me for what I can give day in and day out.

I have often pondered these events taken place, and I have no problem taking neanderthalic (yes i'm creating a new word) or barbaric measures to ensure my families well being.

I certainly hope that our government is not so blind to foresee what problems might arise.

If the shit hit the fan entirely, I'd shit.

I probably wouldn't be ready but I'd be willing to do what had to be done, and if I had to take some of you fuckers out. I would.

Sorry.

I will be running Bartertown with Master Blaster.

We don't need another hero

No, but I would make Steve and Ramen fight in Thunderdome.

Two men enter. One man leaves.

As much attention as our little quarrels have gotten, the UFC should be paying us to step into the ring... We'll headline UFC 84.

That`s just the mentality the survivalist have counted on and have prepared to counter.

Sorry

Interesting question, note there is a paragraph in the original article that states...
The Gov. is not issuing preparedness statements as they have in regards to other earlier threats...duct tape and plastic sheeting. fgtb76

Oh yeah, they fully understand the situation and they have plans in place.
If you have been paying attention and awake you would know what they are.
I`m through trying to educate and warn folks...it`s too late.

I know you can use manure as fertilzer, but what about dog poo and cat poo? Is that any good? If not, I'm pretty sure what the menu will be for the first couple of weeks. After that, I might end up a murderer. And if I'm going to be doomed to Hell anyway, might as well get on with it...

A better question might be, is dog and cat good to eat?

But yeah, as with any manure it needs to breakdown (age some) to be effective.
Even chicken manure is good but it`s real hot and needs to breakdown and mixing into the soil in lesser amounts that say, cow manure.

Myself, I`m surrounded cow pastures, gardens, cornfields, woods and streams.
It`s very rural here with the North Georgia mountains only a few minutes away.
I can see them out my back door, along with deer and other wildlife.
The cows outnumber the people here and people in this area have always been somewhat self sufficient.

I love chinese food! Have no idea where we're gonna get the rice or the sweet & sour sauce though. I'd be better off at my dad's house, where my brother lives right down the road in WNC, to be honest. There's lotsa mountains, deer, wild game, and some cows. But even still, it will take small communities to survive. And though farming is in our genealogy (in a big way) all I've ever grown is a couple of decent (very small, personal consumption) illegal "crops". :ph43r: And that was a loooooooong time ago....

Listen to me now.
Buy dried beans and non perishable items like meal, flower and rice, water purification tabs and medical supplies.
Might be best to pick up a supply of MRE`s if you can find them?
Store them is a cool dry place ''safe place'' that you plan on going to and tell only the ones you love the most to meet you there to ride the storm out.


Do not plan on raiding others supplies after the excrement hits the fan, it`s not a matter if but when it will happen.
Pillaging and looting will get you killed, if not by the folks protecting their stuff, the Gov. will have already declared martial law by then and will have orders to shoot to kill any who resist being rounded up and sent to detention camps.

Someone has a rather high opinion of themselves, don't they?

It was a joke. Relax. Deep breaths...

"You don't give, we take!"

BWAhahahahahahahahaaa-aaa-aaa-aaa<cough><hack><cough>-aaaaaaaaa!

Black Talon probably won't last that long when shit turns fucked-up.

But you all shall kneel before the Emperor of Springfield!

You know your shit sucks when you have to try to make it like someone is freaking out after one post.

Bad mood? :unsure:

I was in a pretty good mood until I made a joke in a threadand this idiot told me I was mad, but I took deep breaths and got over it until the same gashwipe had the gall to ask me if I was in a bad mood.

That pretty much sent me over. I'm buying guns on ebay right now. :wacko:

Can't buy guns on ebay.

But I, on the other hand, can hook you up, no questions asked. 8DRTV75

You can get everything off ebay. I'll buy gun parts and put them together.

That ""You don't give, we take!" shit may stand true in your neck of the woods, but down here, you'd wind up as food for worms.

BT has the plan, food products with a long shelf life. And make sure you have cooking utensils and pots that hold up to direct contact with fire or coals. Cast iron is perfect.

Fuel will be scarce, but there's plenty of wood around here.

Blankets and sleeping bags, would come in handy. Non-breakable plates, bowls, cups and simple stainless steel forks and spoons.

Rednecks can not defeat me.

You remember the ass whooping you guys got the last lime us northerners went down there.

Back in line bitch h6534y

That's right :lol:

I'd like to see you do that, Captain Sunshine.

Emperor of Springfield

Right on, Moe.

An enclave of a few trusted friends & fam, with food, meds, ammo, bedding/blankets, clothes, basic tools and equipment and alternative fuel at least partially or better pre-stockpiled. Besides, holding your own is easier with a committed group.

And as for the mre idea someone had, keep some around, but not many. Just a few cases for emergency use (during the emergency) Great on short term, but not too filling and for the food value/storage space considerations bulk dry foods, (beans, dried veggies, grains etc.) are about the only long term way to go. Better have viable seed stock also. Also, black powder, lead etc and BP firearms for reserve use, and re-loading supplies for cased ammo.

I think Iowas enclave would be harder to take then Docs nursery, but he, too, will fall. You bitches don't seem to have a real good grasp on armaggeddon. You all will have only two chioces, kneel or get fucked.

You don't want to get fucked by me. No, no you don't!

Might as well declare your loyalty to the emperor of Springfield. It's your ass if you don't.

I live back in the woods, you see
A woman and the kids, and the dog and me
I got a shotgun, rifle, few others and a 4-wheel drive
And a country boy can survive
Country folks can survive

I can plow a field all day long
I can catch catfish from dusk till dawn
We make our own whiskey and our own smoke too
Ain’t too many things these ole boys can’t do
We grow good ole tomatoes and homemade wine
And we can skin a buck; we can run a trot-line
And a country boy can survive
Country folks can survive



Too close to civilization to consider going commando here. Old lady retires in a decade. I can be ready to be untouchable by then. Nice topic though.

Fitting, in a way...

By Nicole Maestri

NEW YORK, April 23 (Reuters) - Wal-Mart Stores Inc's (WMT.N: Quote, Profile, Research) Sam's Club warehouse division said on Wednesday it is limiting sales of several types of rice, the latest sign that fears of a rice shortage are rippling around the world.

Sam's Club, the No. 2 U.S. warehouse club operator, said it is limiting sales of Jasmine, Basmati and long grain white rice "due to recent supply and demand trends."

U.S. rice futures hitting an all-time high Wednesday on worries about supply shortages.

On Tuesday, Costco Wholesale Corp (COST.O: Quote, Profile, Research), the largest U.S. warehouse club operator, said it has seen increased demand for items like rice and flour as customers, worried about global food shortages and rising prices, stock up.

Sam's Club, the No. 2 U.S. warehouse club operator, is limiting sales of the 20-pound (9 kg), bulk bags of rice to four bags per customer per visit, and is working with suppliers to ensure the products remain in stock.

Warehouse clubs cater to individual shoppers as well as small businesses and restaurant owners looking to buy cheaper, bulk goods.

With prices for basic food items surging, customers have been going to the clubs to try to save money on bulk sizes of everything from pasta to cooking oil and rice.

Sam's Club said the large-sized bags of rice subject to the limits are typically purchased by its restaurant owner or food service customers.

Sam's Club said is not limiting sales of flour or cooking oil at this time. Costco said some of its stores have put limits on sales of items such as rice and flour, but it was trying to modify those restrictions to meet customer demand.

Costco Chief Executive James Sinegal told Reuters that he believed the recent surge in demand was being driven by media reports about rising global demand and shortages of basic food items in some countries.

Food costs have soared worldwide, spurred by increased demand in emerging markets like China and India; competition with biofuels; high oil prices and market speculation.

The situation has sparked food riots in several African countries, Indonesia, and Haiti. United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has warned that higher food prices could hurt global growth and security.

Rice prices have risen 68 percent since the start of 2008.

Trade bans on rice have been put in place by India, the world's second largest exporter in 2007, and Vietnam, the third biggest, in hopes of cooling domestic prices. Rice is a staple in most of Asia.

On Tuesday, Tim Johnson, president-CEO of California Rice Commission, which represents growers and millers of rice in the state, said: "Bottom line, there is no rice shortage in the United States. We have supplies."

Wal-Mart shares were up 0.4 percent to $56.80 in afternoon trading, while Costco shares rose 1.7 percent to $69.26. (Reporting by Nicole Maestri, editing by Jeffrey Benkoe and Tim Dobbyn)