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Title: HEY AEN! Awesome new technology opportunity?
Description: or Ponzi scheme...


falconfoozball - April 22, 2008 06:22 PM (GMT)
Check out this link if you have time, & let me know what you think. I got this in my email. But I don't understand the very little I know about the technology. I know they mention Nikola Tesla on the site. May be the same technology?

Water For Gas

Alfred E. Neuman - April 22, 2008 06:30 PM (GMT)
Every time gas prices get really high, this makes the rounds. Even my old boss from Georgia sent me a link to an HHO gas story a couple of weeks ago.

Basically, HHO gas is just 2 parts hydrogen gas and 1 part oxygen gas mixed in a single cylinder. It will burn when ignited, and the result is a flame plus water. Welders have been using it for years in cutting torches. It really does burn in an internal combustion engine, and the only exhaust is pure water.

But it takes A LOT more energy to get the hydroden and oxygen gas than you can get out of burning them. It's simple thermodynamics. You can't get more energy out of a system than you put into it. And the only current ways to get HHO gas is through electrolysis of water, using massive amounts of electrical current to crack water into hydrogen and oxygen gas.

If we had a way to make tons of cheap electricity, HHO gas is definately a way to store that energy in a way that can be burned in regular cars without TOO much modification. But the range is fairly limited because you can only store so much HHO gas in high pressure cylingers in a car.

falconfoozball - April 22, 2008 06:36 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Alfred E. Neuman @ Apr 22 2008, 12:30 PM)
Every time gas prices get really high, this makes the rounds. Even my old boss from Georgia sent me a link to an HHO gas story a couple of weeks ago.

Basically, HHO gas is just 2 parts hydrogen gas and 1 part oxygen gas mixed in a single cylinder. It will burn when ignited, and the result is a flame plus water. Welders have been using it for years in cutting torches. It really does burn in an internal combustion engine, and the only exhaust is pure water.

But it takes A LOT more energy to get the hydroden and oxygen gas than you can get out of burning them. It's simple thermodynamics. You can't get more energy out of a system than you put into it. And the only current ways to get HHO gas is through electrolysis of water, using massive amounts of electrical current to crack water into hydrogen and oxygen gas.

If we had a way to make tons of cheap electricity, HHO gas is definately a way to store that energy in a way that can be burned in regular cars without TOO much modification. But the range is fairly limited because you can only store so much HHO gas in high pressure cylingers in a car.

So, is it or is it NOT a helpful technology to convert older non-hybrid cars into hybrids? I guess I'm asking more on the end-user level, as opposed to manufacturing & production level.

Alfred E. Neuman - April 22, 2008 06:42 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (falconfoozball @ Apr 22 2008, 01:36 PM)
QUOTE (Alfred E. Neuman @ Apr 22 2008, 12:30 PM)
Every time gas prices get really high, this makes the rounds.  Even my old boss from Georgia sent me a link to an HHO gas story a couple of weeks ago. 

Basically, HHO gas is just 2 parts hydrogen gas and 1 part oxygen gas mixed in a single cylinder.  It will burn when ignited, and the result is a flame plus water.  Welders have been using it for years in cutting torches.  It really does burn in an internal combustion engine, and the only exhaust is pure water.

But it takes A LOT more energy to get the hydroden and oxygen gas than you can get out of burning them.  It's simple thermodynamics.  You can't get more energy out of a system than you put into it.  And the only current ways to get HHO gas is through electrolysis of water, using massive amounts of electrical current to crack water into hydrogen and oxygen gas.

If we had a way to make tons of cheap electricity, HHO gas is definately a way to store that energy in a way that can be burned in regular cars without TOO much modification.  But the range is fairly limited because you can only store so much HHO gas in high pressure cylingers in a car.

So, is it or is it NOT a helpful technology to convert older non-hybrid cars into hybrids? I guess I'm asking more on the end-user level, as opposed to manufacturing & production level.

Whitout a cheap sourse of renewable electricity, it's not a good technology.

The kits on the market are selling bad physics. Their premise is that you use the car's alternator to generate electricity to crack water into hydrogen and oxygen. This HHO gas is then burned in the engine, moving the car down the road and turning the generator which made the HHO gas. The exhaust water vapor is captured and turned back into HHO gas.

It sounds great in theory, but no system is 100% efficient. So it takes more energy to make the HHO gas and run the car than you get out of it. The net result is using more fossil fuel than you would have otherwise because the alternator is having to work harder than normal to make the HHO gas, which can't supply enough energy to run the car and replenish itself.

The only real way this works is by storing enough HHO gas onboard in pressurized tanks to run the car for a long distance. Then just re-fill the tanks when they run out.




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