Title: Falcons should ignore Ryan temptation
Iowahorse - April 23, 2008 11:34 PM (GMT)
Falcons should ignore Ryan temptation
By Jeff Schultz | Wednesday, April 23, 2008, 05:13 PM
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Given that people like Thomas Dimitroff can hear terms like “waist-bender” and “hips-and-turns” and realize its only two scouts talking about football and not, like, tryouts at the Cheetah, far be it for me to dictate what he should do in the NFL draft this weekend.
(Except maybe the obvious: Stay the heck out of Blacksburg.)
But there is growing speculation that Glenn Dorsey, the LSU defensive tackle, is not going to be there when the Falcons pick third Saturday. Miami already has signed offensive tackle Jake Long with the No. 1 pick and perceived concerns that Dorsey will go second overall to St. Louis are complicated by the fact the Rams are run by former Falcons personnel assistant Billy Devaney, which means the usual pre-draft disinformation campaign has even more arms and legs than usual.
No Dorsey would leave the Falcons with two choices: 1) Boston College quarterback Matt Ryan; 2) Anybody else.
Just a thought: Anybody else is looking pretty good and, at the least, a whole lot safer.
Ryan may seem like the easy choice. He’s the tall, good-looking, strong-armed, quarterback a franchise loves to throw its marketing arms around. If the Falcons are now like a stained dress shirt, Arthur Blank must look at Ryan and think, “Eureka! Spray and Wash!”
The problem is that the Falcons have so many problems other than quarterback — and if they make a mistake at quarterback with the third pick in the draft, it will set them back several more years, which, given their current state, would be about 12 B.C.
Ryan has been a terrific college quarterback. But think about it: Is he any more highly regarded now than David Carr, Ryan Leaf, Rick Mirer, David Klingler, Akili Smith, Joey Harrington, Andre Ware, Tim Couch, Alex Smith, Heath Shuler, Kerry Collins, Cade McNown or Trent Dilfer were in the same time frame?
Ryan looked really good against Georgia Tech. He threw a lot of touchdown passes in the ACC.
Sorry. I need more.
NFL teams have a long inglorious history of overreaching at quarterback. The position is viewed as the quickest fix for a team deemed a pathetic mess. Fans get impatient. Sponsors don’t return calls. Owners get antsy. Media — well, we have our moments.
Dimitroff would do well to live by his own words when he first got here from New England. “I’m kind of a quarterback snob,” he said. His former team, the Patriots, took Tom Brady with the 199th pick.
If he is really that sold on Ryan as a franchise-changer, then he should take him. But given the backdrop, that seems unlikely. If Dorsey is gone, the Falcons would be better served using the pick on another defensive tackle (Sedrick Ellis) or trading down to pick one later.
Football hasn’t changed that much. Even if there are four receivers on one side of the ball and six defensive backs on the other, games still usually hinge on one team punching the other in the mouth.
The quickest way for the Falcons to get respectable and competing is by building the defense. A strong presence on the line inside would create more room for ends John Abraham and Jamaal Anderson (if we are to assume Jamaal Anderson will still have a career).
The advantage of the Falcons having so many early picks — six in the first three rounds — is there will be plenty of time to draft offensive linemen and a quarterback later (noteworthy: Brian Brohm will be available long after the third pick.)
New head coach Mike Smith was a defensive assistant in Jacksonville and Baltimore. He said he is trying to take a “more universal view” of the team and the draft now, given his new responsibilities.
“You have to change your mind-set,” he said.
But Smith’s mind-set with the Falcons still will be old school: tackle, block, run the ball. Spending the third overall pick on a quarterback who might be less than extraordinary seems a colossal risk.
If the Rams pass on Glenn Dorsey, the Falcons’ decision is easy. If they take Dorsey, it should be just as easy. Stay on that side of ball.
The stain will come out eventually.
gritzblitz56 - April 24, 2008 01:41 PM (GMT)
Here's hoping that the Rams take Chris Long and make our decision really easy.
Steve_Bartkowski - April 24, 2008 01:50 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (gritzblitz56 @ Apr 24 2008, 07:41 AM) |
| Here's hoping that the Rams take Chris Long and make our decision really easy. |
Amen to that... We have 2 more days of worry though...
sprintfan11 - April 24, 2008 01:52 PM (GMT)
Foundational football is what has been preached by the GM and Coach. Foundational football means NOT putting a young QB behind a shitty O-line or a defense that allows the opposing teams to put up lots of points and putting too much pressure on the offense to score.
If the current brain trust are going to walk it like they talk it,they will NOT draft Ryan at three. There are too many foundational pieces missing and all the talk of a Franchise QB at this point is not what the team needs.
Iowahorse - April 24, 2008 01:54 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (sprintfan11 @ Apr 24 2008, 07:52 AM) |
Foundational football is what has been preached by the GM and Coach. Foundational football means NOT putting a young QB behind a shitty O-line or a defense that allows the opposing teams to put up lots of points and putting too much pressure on the offense to score.
If the current brain trust are going to walk it like they talk it,they will NOT draft Ryan at three. There are too many foundational pieces missing and all the talk of a Franchise QB at this point is not what the team needs. |
I agree, but they MAY draft him if Dorsey is gone, content to let him sit and practice for a year while the o-line gels. I don't want Ryan, but we may well end up getting him.
sprintfan11 - April 24, 2008 02:09 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Iowahorse @ Apr 24 2008, 07:54 AM) |
| QUOTE (sprintfan11 @ Apr 24 2008, 07:52 AM) | Foundational football is what has been preached by the GM and Coach. Foundational football means NOT putting a young QB behind a shitty O-line or a defense that allows the opposing teams to put up lots of points and putting too much pressure on the offense to score.
If the current brain trust are going to walk it like they talk it,they will NOT draft Ryan at three. There are too many foundational pieces missing and all the talk of a Franchise QB at this point is not what the team needs. |
I agree, but they MAY draft him if Dorsey is gone, content to let him sit and practice for a year while the o-line gels. I don't want Ryan, but we may well end up getting him.
|
Drafting Ryan at three, regardless of their overall plan to draft o-line and defense with the rest of the picks, smacks of the phucking awful first round picks the franchise has chosen in the past.
Call me a pessimist, but my gut says NO to Matt Ryan.
Iowahorse - April 24, 2008 02:14 PM (GMT)
Any Qb in the top 5,..and maybe 10 is a reach to me in this draft.
Steve_Bartkowski - April 24, 2008 02:51 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Iowahorse @ Apr 24 2008, 08:14 AM) |
| Any Qb in the top 5,..and maybe 10 is a reach to me in this draft. |
Yep, I want a LOS player bad. Dorsey, Ellis, hell even B Albert or Clady if we have to.
Steve_Bartkowski - April 24, 2008 02:52 PM (GMT)
With Jake Long gone I'm starting to have a man crush on Otah but not sure how we would get him...
Iowahorse - April 24, 2008 03:01 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Steve_Bartkowski @ Apr 24 2008, 08:51 AM) |
| QUOTE (Iowahorse @ Apr 24 2008, 08:14 AM) | | Any Qb in the top 5,..and maybe 10 is a reach to me in this draft. |
Yep, I want a LOS player bad. Dorsey, Ellis, hell even B Albert or Clady if we have to.
|
The more I read about Clady the less I like him.
Steve_Bartkowski - April 24, 2008 03:03 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Iowahorse @ Apr 24 2008, 09:01 AM) |
| QUOTE (Steve_Bartkowski @ Apr 24 2008, 08:51 AM) | | QUOTE (Iowahorse @ Apr 24 2008, 08:14 AM) | | Any Qb in the top 5,..and maybe 10 is a reach to me in this draft. |
Yep, I want a LOS player bad. Dorsey, Ellis, hell even B Albert or Clady if we have to.
|
The more I read about Clady the less I like him.
|
Ya I think I like Otah better.
BrockSamson3000 - April 24, 2008 03:17 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Iowahorse @ Apr 24 2008, 10:01 AM) |
| QUOTE (Steve_Bartkowski @ Apr 24 2008, 08:51 AM) | | QUOTE (Iowahorse @ Apr 24 2008, 08:14 AM) | | Any Qb in the top 5,..and maybe 10 is a reach to me in this draft. |
Yep, I want a LOS player bad. Dorsey, Ellis, hell even B Albert or Clady if we have to.
|
The more I read about Clady the less I like him.
|
Clady is definitely more suited for a zone-blocking type of scheme.
Glad to see at least one Atlanta writer write a logical article. I still can't believe Mark Bradley claims that Ryan is the most pure passer he has ever seen in college.
Steve_Bartkowski - April 24, 2008 03:27 PM (GMT)
Now if we just got Jeff Otah, Brandon Albert, and Gosder Cherlius I would be happy... :unsure:
BlackTalon - April 24, 2008 03:32 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Steve_Bartkowski @ Apr 24 2008, 11:27 AM) |
| Now if we just got Jeff Otah, Brandon Albert, and Gosder Cherlius I would be happy... :unsure: |
With the 3rd overall pick? n7rryb
That`s called reaching.
Iowahorse - April 24, 2008 03:33 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (BlackTalon @ Apr 24 2008, 09:32 AM) |
| QUOTE (Steve_Bartkowski @ Apr 24 2008, 11:27 AM) | | Now if we just got Jeff Otah, Brandon Albert, and Gosder Cherlius I would be happy... :unsure: |
With the 3rd overall pick? n7rryb
That`s called reaching.
|
It's called trading down.
BlackTalon - April 24, 2008 03:36 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE |
Ryan has been a terrific college quarterback. But think about it: Is he any more highly regarded now than David Carr, Ryan Leaf, Rick Mirer, David Klingler, Akili Smith, Joey Harrington, Andre Ware, Tim Couch, Alex Smith, Heath Shuler, Kerry Collins, Cade McNown or Trent Dilfer were in the same time frame?
Ryan looked really good against Georgia Tech. He threw a lot of touchdown passes in the ACC.
Sorry. I need more. |
Using that logic we will never draft a QB. :huh:
Iowahorse - April 24, 2008 03:51 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (BlackTalon @ Apr 24 2008, 09:36 AM) |
| QUOTE | Ryan has been a terrific college quarterback. But think about it: Is he any more highly regarded now than David Carr, Ryan Leaf, Rick Mirer, David Klingler, Akili Smith, Joey Harrington, Andre Ware, Tim Couch, Alex Smith, Heath Shuler, Kerry Collins, Cade McNown or Trent Dilfer were in the same time frame?
Ryan looked really good against Georgia Tech. He threw a lot of touchdown passes in the ACC.
Sorry. I need more. |
Using that logic we will never draft a QB. :huh:
|
Have you ever considered the fact that although we do need a qb, this draft is not the best for picking one? Ryan may be the best of them, but that's not esp. saying a lot.
Steve_Bartkowski - April 24, 2008 03:52 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Iowahorse @ Apr 24 2008, 09:51 AM) |
| Have you ever considered the fact that although we do need a qb, this draft is not the best for picking one? Ryan may be the best of them, but that's not esp. saying a lot. |
Ya it makes way more sense to fix the O-line first. Putting any young QB behind this O-line is a recipe for disaster.
BrockSamson3000 - April 24, 2008 03:55 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Iowahorse @ Apr 24 2008, 10:51 AM) |
Have you ever considered the fact that although we do need a qb, this draft is not the best for picking one? Ryan may be the best of them, but that's not esp. saying a lot. |
Exactly. Unless a guy seems to be a slam dunk, there is no reason to saddle yourself with a top-5 QB just because you need one. If you miss on a late first or second round guy, it doesn't prevent you from addressing QB in the years to come. If you miss on a top-5 guy because you panicked and picked one despite him not really deserving to be a top-5 guy, you set your team back for years.
Now, if TD and Smith with all their football experience and wisdom truly think Ryan is a superstar QB in waiting, fine. I just don't want them to pick him because we need one and he's there, or to make up for Vick or give us a face of the franchise or any of that nonsense.
gritzblitz56 - April 24, 2008 04:12 PM (GMT)
See the Joey Harrington formula for failure. He was a stud QB in college (way better than Ryan, btw) and he was drafted high on to a team with a bad line, no running game, and a weak defense. As a result, his confidence was destroyed within his first two seasons and he couldn't develop due to the severe beating he took week in and week out.
Now see the Ben Roethisburger formula for success. He was drafted to a team with a good line, strong running game, and great defense. And he developed and thrived as a result.
My point is that we need to build a team first. Then develop a franchise QB. Doing it in reverse has been shown to not work.
Steve_Bartkowski - April 24, 2008 04:18 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (gritzblitz56 @ Apr 24 2008, 10:12 AM) |
See the Joey Harrington formula for failure. He was a stud QB in college (way better than Ryan, btw) and he was drafted high on to a team with a bad line, no running game, and a weak defense. As a result, his confidence was destroyed within his first two seasons and he couldn't develop due to the severe beating he took week in and week out.
Now see the Ben Roethisburger formula for success. He was drafted to a team with a good line, strong running game, and great defense. And he developed and thrived as a result.
My point is that we need to build a team first. Then develop a franchise QB. Doing it in reverse has been shown to not work. |
Yep, the recipe for failure is to rebuild and start with the QB, RB, WRs, and DBs first.
The recipe for success is to build from the inside out with QB being one of the last pieces of the puzzle. The final pieces would typically be good WRs and good DBs.
We've had it backwards for a number of years now.
BrockSamson3000 - April 24, 2008 04:37 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (gritzblitz56 @ Apr 24 2008, 11:12 AM) |
See the Joey Harrington formula for failure. He was a stud QB in college (way better than Ryan, btw) and he was drafted high on to a team with a bad line, no running game, and a weak defense. As a result, his confidence was destroyed within his first two seasons and he couldn't develop due to the severe beating he took week in and week out.
Now see the Ben Roethisburger formula for success. He was drafted to a team with a good line, strong running game, and great defense. And he developed and thrived as a result.
My point is that we need to build a team first. Then develop a franchise QB. Doing it in reverse has been shown to not work. |
I think this is true unless you have a truly special player available like Peyton Manning. I think a more telling comparison between Joey and Ryan are the less than 60% completion rate for their college careers (right at 60 for Ryan) and less than 30 career starts (right at 30 for Ryan).
Joey Harrington was not put in a good situation, but he was also overdrafted by a team that was desperate for a QB.
Iowahorse - April 24, 2008 04:38 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (BrockSamson3000 @ Apr 24 2008, 10:37 AM) |
| QUOTE (gritzblitz56 @ Apr 24 2008, 11:12 AM) | See the Joey Harrington formula for failure. He was a stud QB in college (way better than Ryan, btw) and he was drafted high on to a team with a bad line, no running game, and a weak defense. As a result, his confidence was destroyed within his first two seasons and he couldn't develop due to the severe beating he took week in and week out.
Now see the Ben Roethisburger formula for success. He was drafted to a team with a good line, strong running game, and great defense. And he developed and thrived as a result.
My point is that we need to build a team first. Then develop a franchise QB. Doing it in reverse has been shown to not work. |
I think this is true unless you have a truly special player available like Peyton Manning. I think a more telling comparison between Joey and Ryan are the less than 60% completion rate for their college careers (right at 60 for Ryan) and less than 30 career starts (right at 30 for Ryan).
Joey Harrington was not put in a good situation, but he was also overdrafted by a team that was desperate for a QB.
|
Anything Matt Millen does is fucked up.
RobSalvador - April 25, 2008 01:45 AM (GMT)
Lot of hatred for Matty Ice in here. Id say chances are about 50% hes the top player left on our board if Dorsey goes. Gonna be a ton of bellyaching going on.
JDB7821 - April 25, 2008 04:43 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Iowahorse @ Apr 24 2008, 09:51 AM) |
| QUOTE (BlackTalon @ Apr 24 2008, 09:36 AM) | | QUOTE | Ryan has been a terrific college quarterback. But think about it: Is he any more highly regarded now than David Carr, Ryan Leaf, Rick Mirer, David Klingler, Akili Smith, Joey Harrington, Andre Ware, Tim Couch, Alex Smith, Heath Shuler, Kerry Collins, Cade McNown or Trent Dilfer were in the same time frame?
Ryan looked really good against Georgia Tech. He threw a lot of touchdown passes in the ACC.
Sorry. I need more. |
Using that logic we will never draft a QB. :huh:
|
Have you ever considered the fact that although we do need a qb, this draft is not the best for picking one? Ryan may be the best of them, but that's not esp. saying a lot.
|
Unless Stafford lights it up and comes out next year, at this point in time, Ryan is better than any of the other senior quarterbacks in the next draft.