So to understand:
We wizards study for around 60 years? And we only know one spell? and we will learn about at least 6 more from combat? Because as we fight, we learn new ways to use magic via application?

Or could it mean we already knew the spells but lacked the combat magic experience to ues them?

so we study for 60 years, learn 5 spells, but in all this time we never practice them. or maybe we do but we're not skilled or confident enough to use them in a real life situation?

So then when we fight enemies, we practice using the spells msot familliar to us and as we become more relaxed, we try our stronger spells?

or could it be that as we fight, it's like the other classes.


Okay let's explore the other classes magics. I believe as they show valour in combat, their respective gods favour them and grant them their abilities.

So anybody have an opinion on which theory sounds better?

I'm estimating 60 years.

Trivia:
Now then I assume that 60 years is to teach the fundamentals and intricacies of magic, which is what allows wizards their very broad array of spells. actually learning the spells probably took a week. (judging from library use)

Your post and your vote options aren't exactly the same...

I prefer the last option. We already knew most of the spels, we just weren't used to using them in combat.

And I don't think magic can be portrayed effectivly in most games, especialy not Majesty/HoA. Spellforce isn't half bad at it, but then, I love Spellforce to death, so... yeah... :P

I agree, you probably knew all the spells(except the ones you learn at the library later), just weren't used to actually using magic in combat. The more you use simple spells, the more attuned to magic you become and are able to use stronger spells.

If it wasn't so and you learned them later yourself as you got stronger, all the Wizards wouldn't know the same spells. :P

I just don't think "relaxed" is the right word there... :P

Agreed; relazed doesn't fit well. Not sure what it should be, but it shouldn't be that. :P

Seriously though, it would be great if you could become an archmage and learn different spells. Or at least pick an element of choice, instead of always working with fire.

http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=45358 :P

...
Random much?

Did you read the flavor text?

Ah.

:P

Yeah. :P

Where did the number "60 years" come from?

I'm guessing since Wizards look old when they first come out.

But I'd say at least 70-75. 60 year olds usually don't look that old.

So who says they spent all that time being Wizards? Perhaps having a white beard is just a requirement to get in the Wizard's Guild. :)

I'll take A, B and D.
It does seem odd that wizards take decades to master the rudiments of arcane practice, but can progress to the status of tiny gods in less than a week, given level-appropriate encounters.
Perhaps they're simply to nervous to set foot outside their guilds and gain some real-world experience until they've memorised the grimoire arcanum.
Mostly, though, I guess it was an art decision.

I think Spidey's right, they don't have time to learn other spells until then cause they're trying to look old and charismatic. :P

they're not 60 year olds, i'm estimating they were training for around 6 decades. apprentices are usually at least 10-20.

Spidey might be right. I suppose thye only take old dottards just to keep up appearances.

Yay, Jaya Ballard !! ^^ Jodah's funny apprentice from the ice age books 2 and 3, eternal ice and shattered alliance.

So what about other classes? they fit with the god theory?

Yeah, the others probably get power from their god as they prove themselves in battle.

I also agree it was an art decision.

But if you're really trying to reconcile old men with white beards and magic within the game, I'm just gonna go with it's a requirement to have a beard before entering the Wizard's Guild. There's no other evidence whatsoever that they enter at a certain age or Apprentices are 10-20 or whatever.

As for the other classes, I'd leave out the combat part and just say that their god(desses) grants them favor as they gain experience, seeing as how the bulk of a Healer is non-combative.

Most Fantasy world does not have an explanation of magic that is consistent with physics. I’d like to rectify that in Ardania. Simply put, fantasy magic can be explained with ability to mentally affect quantum probabilities in that particular world. At the micro scale, particles has a chance of spontaneously change direction, vanish, or come into existence. Magic alters the probability of these events, and mass action of the change in probability creates effects in the Marco scale world. Some people speculated that quantum mechanics are influenced by events in parallel universes; therefore magic practice in a fantasy world would involve mentally influencing such a universe in a way to achieve desired manipulation of probability in the practitioner’s own world.

As an example, I will explain this with one of the pillars of the fantasy magic: elemental or evocation spells:

Electricity manipulation is the most simple to explain, it alters the probability of electrons “jump” to another atom. The ordinarily in non conductors like air this chance is very low, but magic increase it; as a result the conductivity is drastically increased. The wizard can also cause electrons to be spontaneously generated at a specific location, causing a powerful targeted discharge.

Manipulation of fire requires the use of trick similar to Maxwell’s demon. Normally Brownian motion results in net movement in direction of reduced concentration, but magic alters the probability of movement resulting in a reversed effect. Combustible air like oxygen and hydrogen would move to a volume where they are already concentrated. And this volume is at a temperature where these gases would by ignited. As a result the volume continues to combust so long as the wizard continues to focus on it. A skilled caster could change the size or location of the combusting volume in different ways resulting in unfortunate consequence for their enemies.

Ice spell is exactly the opposite; normally Brownian motion dictates that heat move towards an area of low temperature, magic again reverse the effect, cause heat to flow against the gradient. The result is an area of intensely low temperature; it could be used to freeze a monster to a river that needs to be crossed.

Other spells can be explained similarly, this would require a good understanding of the physics however. But I am sure that’s no problem for this community at least.

As for wizards being ancient, I don’t think that is really the case. They are generally portrayed as ancient because Cyberlore had only one sprite and portrait for each class. I’d like to think male wizards appear old because they alter their appearance to something that other people would trust more easily. Wizards could, in theory, modify their appearance significantly without much effort.

my 2 copper pieces.

Can you post an explanation that is less painful to read?

Uhh...yes.

Did I mention I failed physics this semester? :P

Nah, I'm kidding, I got what you were saying.

“You are a wielder of the mind, you will not flinch from pain, you will not waver in fear, No matter how terrible the truth, you should face it, stare into the eyes of death, If you have to. Your mind will be blade drawn against the darkness. ”
- The Wizard's Oath, "Wings of Darkness"
:D

Oh, the point being, if I want to con the gold out of some dumb peasant, I'd appear as a helpless old man over a clever young scoundrel any day of the week. Of course I’d alter my appearance to that of a prince if I want to steal something from the barmaid, ah never mind. I have to watch the rating on these forums.

Yes, that point is valid.(And brought up too often. :P ) Still, I don't see a twenty year old masquarading as a 70 year old, young people are too pompous for that. :P These Wizards would still need to be 40-50 if you ask me.

ah i read it now. cooker you'll love my book if i ever publish it.

However, i also use the principle of "Just as much energy as it would otherwise" which would make both the movement of electrons and the combustion of oxygen difficult. My theory is that you can sustain such unstable elements but you can't create them. Like pyro from x-men 2 and 3.

Wizards are smart people, that's a part of guild admission process. They know the right appearance for the situation. For example, a 20 years old guild apprentice will masquerade as a70 year old visiting scholar if he were to stand in for a class when the guild master is out of town :D. But he wouldn’t go to the Traven with his friends pretending to be 70 years old unless he REALLY loves practical jokes.

Sean Connery voice:
“Yes, I am the new guild master, yes, he died yesterday … I know it’s tragic. That’s why I’d like to drown my grieves. Elven wine, only your best. put them on the guild tab … and quit asking questions.” :P

That'd make perfect sense actually. Otherwise an apprentice would be able to burn down the whole town after being dumped by junior priestess and drinking more then his share at the inn … :P

By the way, it’d not take all that much power to alter the trajectory of meteors. A small thrust over many days can do the job just as well. But it means it’d take a LONG time to cast meteors.

To do it, the wizard has to pick the right rock, then spend many days altering graviton density in subtle ways for the rock to strike the right place. Most wizards will probably be lucky to get them to fall in a general area – like a particularly annoying town that needs to cease existing

They often are. :P

Tell me, how many young strong wizards have you seen in fantasy settings that were responsible and sensible? :P

La.~

Cooker's explanation is actually a very good one, in my opinion. Although he (and the rest of you, for that matter) forgot to mention the Ether Winds. So, a Wizard manipulates the Ether Winds which in turn modifies quantum reality which in causes things to happen.

As for the question, I'd just go with the "Wizards take a loong time to learn the theory" idea. They may know, theoretically, how to cast x, but they need practice. And one can't exactly practice large-scale destructive magic in an urban area. Also, keep in mind that unless he's specialising in war magic, a Wizard presumably learns other spells with more applicaplicability in day-to-day aaffairs. Such as altering their appearance.

Although bless me if I can understand why they think appearing to be a senile old man would inspire anybody's confidence.

I think they hope people(and monsters) will leave them alone without a second glance.

At least they'd be considered harmless and not worthy the effort of mob formation and subsequent mob justice by the common peasant :D

And yeah, the Ether Windsis the alternative dimension I mentioned in the first post. .I thought up the entire quantum mechanics thing while eating a McDonald chicken sandwich.

Oh. Love to chat, but the lab called.

Copycat. :P

True but meteors don't hit earth for a soel reason. Jupiter's gravitational pull takes out all the meteors outside of our system.

And besides, strong nuclear fore is 10^38? times stronger then gravitational force, which is why i disapprove of lightning.

You don't have to overcome the strong nuclear force unless you want to trigger a nuclear reaction. The only thing needed to manipulation of electricity is altering the probability of electron jumping from one atom to another.

As for meteors, we are really not very familiar with Ardania’s orbital mechanics. All we know is that it has a moon and no visible rings. We are not certain of the size of the world, its density or its environment, it’s probably fairly earth like. One can’t have complex life if there are constant meteor impacts

Judging from hellfire mountain formation from the artwork provided by Cyberlore, Ardania is a much younger world then earth with more geological activities.

:unsure:

the binds between electrons and the nucleus still have to be broken. that means overcoming 9.8 * 10^18 i think? * 1.64*10^-24 m^2/s^2/6.02^1023 * however large you want your bolt to be. multiply that by the ammount of electrons you need and divide that by the ammount of energy you need. ..... wow.... it's actually possible to channel lightning without killing yourself. But by these calculations, you can barely power up the energizer rabbit.

None of that is needed. Since electrons on outer shell of both atoms are at the same energy state, and the electron is an subatomic particle, it's possible for it to skip the high transitional state with Quantum Tunneling. Here is the wiki particle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_tunneling

Therefore, there is no need to overcome the Electric force (integrating the force required to move the electron to distance of infinity). There is only the need of altering the probability of the electrons tunneling. Ordinarily this is very unlikely ...

lightning bolts themselves has very large energy. So it'd take a very long time to charge them up according to your theory of "take just as much energy otherwise". but if cars gets melted into slug with a single bolt in real life, you could probably slay a dragon with a single bolt in Ardania.

which is why lightning we make is invariably weaker.

Do you have msn? Mine is klodin@hotmail.com

Of course, since mentally affecting quantum probabilities is still impossible by the known laws of physics, that's essentially still 'magic'. I mean, clearly magic consists of the ability to tamper with the fundamental laws of the universe in some unorthodox fashion, but you've just kinda shifted the burden of explanation one step up the chain.
It's an interesting notion, though.

Eh. It's as good as any. I've been wondering, actually, if it's possible to create a 100% physics-compatible fantasy universe (i.e, obviously featuring aspects outside the existing laws of physics, but still able to simulate them without violation of basic chemistry or biology.) It's not too difficult for arcane magic, but coming up with simple descriptions for healing, alchemy, anatomy and so forth almost invariably requires simplification to the point of falsification. I'm beginning to think I should go with aristotelian humours and have done with it.

Usual disclaimer: Cooker's opinions are his own and do not neccesarily reflect the official policies of Ardanian Wizardy Inc.

Oh, it's possible to imagine ways around these difficulties and even the raw expenditure of energy requires- wizards tap the ambient aether winds, and so forth.
For instance, to cast lightning bolt, you actually have the electric current flow along a thin spray of conductive particles and possibly shape a partial vaccum to reduce current resistance. Etc. etc.
The question is how, exactly, wizards' minds can subvert normal routes of interaction with the physical world in order to manipulate matter and energy directly. In the case of divine magic, it's simple enough, assuming the existence of Gods, they do the heavy lifting. But mere mortals?

Really? Did I miss something? I was actually suspecting something along those lines myself to explain climate change.

http://majesty.strategyplanet.gamespy.com/..._Migration3.jpg

http://majesty.strategyplanet.gamespy.com/...the-Portal3.jpg

http://majesty.strategyplanet.gamespy.com/..._to_Ardania.jpg

Intriguing- the portal shown is news to me. There also seem to be multiple Vendral-alikes, but are we certain those are the hellfire mountains? I was thinking of descrepancies between the Prima Guide and Quest screen maps.

Occam's Razor

You know many spells, but only a few are useful or powerful /useful enough to use in combat.

A 1st level wizard, in addition to Energy Blast, knows spells to magically:
1. Tie his shoe/sandal laces.
2. Stir a cauldron.
3. Light a candle.
4. Write ideas down with a quill.
5. Turn the pages of a book.
6. Quiet the squeaky wheel of a cart.
7. Comb out ones beard.
8. Suppress B.O.
9. Remove in stains from one's robe.
10. Sweep broken glass from the floor.

There are 90+ other spells that they know, but I seem to have misplace the list. Perhaps the group can remember them?