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Title: Provocative Preteen Photos
Description: Annie's Mailbox: 12/26/08


valjean - November 2, 2008 05:30 AM (GMT)
Dear Annie: I have worked with "Gloria" for several years. I've always enjoyed looking at photographs of her two kids, but lately I've become uncomfortable with these snapshots.

Gloria's daughter just turned 12, and all the pictures show her in very provocative poses with arched back, pouty lips, heavy makeup and even cleavage. I am concerned that she is encouraging the girl to pose in this seductive manner because she shows the photos with tremendous pride to both male and female co-workers.

Others have mentioned the sexual undertones of the pictures. Should I tell Gloria these photos make me uncomfortable and I don't think they should be shared with others, especially men? I doubt she'd take it well. — Photographic Phriendship

Dear Photo: It continues to amaze us that so many otherwise caring parents believe it is flattering to turn their pre-adolescent children into sex objects. You can gently point out to Gloria that these photographs make her daughter look like a little tart and people might get the wrong idea. Gloria may scoff, but it will make her think twice about displaying these pictures at work. Other than that, compliment only the more natural photographs and be visibly less interested in the not-quite kiddie porn.

Rebecca65 - November 2, 2008 07:32 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (valjean @ Nov 1 2008, 11:30 PM)
You can gently point out to Gloria that these photographs make her daughter look like a little tart

Uh-huh, right. Tell a proud parent that her daughter looks like a little tart. Way to make friends and keep the peace in the workplace.

I can't think of a more tactful solution, but...not that.

valjean - November 2, 2008 12:51 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (valjean @ Nov 2 2008, 12:30 AM)
It continues to amaze us that so many otherwise caring parents believe it is flattering to turn their pre-adolescent children into sex objects.

QUOTE
I am concerned that she is encouraging the girl to pose in this seductive manner because she shows the photos with tremendous pride to both male and female co-workers.


It's amazing to me that the parent is automatically to blame. Maybe the woman is blind to the sexual overtones of the photos herself.

Yeah, she can say something better like "don't you think wearing that much makeup makes her look much older than 12. I'd be worried if I had a young girl even 16 wearing that much makeup."

It's still better for them to say something to her than talk about it behind her back, I guess.

cringe - November 2, 2008 02:59 PM (GMT)
Okay, another boring "my daughter, the teacher" story.

Keep in mind she teaches KINDERGARTEN. They are five year olds.

Every year, she brings over the school pictures of the kids in her classes and tells us their names and a little about them. It's 'tradition'.

Last year I'm looking through the usual photos of little boys with identical haircuts and horizontally striped shirts and the little girls with their Sunday best clothing and all of a sudden I just stopped and gasped.

There was a picture that just sent chills down my spine. This tiny little five year old was "posed" with her back arched, her eyes kind of to the side and a very definite flirty (I can't think of a more accurate word there - maybe provocative) smile. It looked like a Playboy centerfold with clothes. It was genuinely shocking. :o

My daughter looked at me and laughed and said "I can tell exactly which picture you're looking at just by looking at your face! It even shocked the photographer. All the kids line up, sit on the little chair, click, next . . . But when it was her turn, she sat on the chair, immediately arched her back and got "that" facial expression and held it.

The photographer looked at me like "What do I do here? Do I go ahead and take this picture of this slutty looking little girl or do I suggest she look a little more . . . uh, like a child?" My daughter just shrugged and said "Go ahead," but it was a very disturbing pose that the child CLEARLY had been taught. :angry:

ketzpjz - November 2, 2008 04:11 PM (GMT)
cringe,
I think your daughter the teacher should contact Social Services and see if they could find out what's going on in her household. I'm not kidding! :(

valjean - November 2, 2008 05:43 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (cringe @ Nov 2 2008, 09:59 AM)
My daughter looked at me and laughed and said "I can tell exactly which picture you're looking at just by looking at your face! It even shocked the photographer. All the kids line up, sit on the little chair, click, next . . . But when it was her turn, she sat on the chair, immediately arched her back and got "that" facial expression and held it.

The photographer looked at me like "What do I do here? Do I go ahead and take this picture of this slutty looking little girl or do I suggest she look a little more . . . uh, like a child?" My daughter just shrugged and said "Go ahead," but it was a very disturbing pose that the child CLEARLY had been taught. :angry:

I am really surprised the photographer was shocked or had to ask if he should go ahead and take the picture. Most photographers would tell the kid to say cheese or take some other action that would result in a different shot, without even having to go into the reasons why.

I've had photographers try to get my kids to smile naturally and one in particular had a hard time with it, knowing her pic was being taken, but the photographers were great in getting her to relax and break out in a big natural smile.

cringe - November 2, 2008 05:57 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (valjean @ Nov 2 2008, 11:43 AM)

The photographer looked at me like "What do I do here?

He didn't actually ask.
He just looked at her like he wasn't sure what to do. She did tell him to go ahead.

This isn't a STUDIO. All he does is take a photo of every child in the school. There are more than 900 kids in that elementary school, so speed is crucial. It isn't like they have time to "relax" each and every kid, although I'm really happy that your child's school photographer was able to do that with your child.

I have school pictures of my kids that were actually fairly flattering and some that were truly hideous. We just don't expect the same results from that kind of photography that we would expect from a studio, or even ourselves taking pictures of our own kids! If I took an unflattering picture of my own, I threw them out! (the photos, not the kids)

Rebecca65 - November 2, 2008 10:05 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (ketzpjz @ Nov 2 2008, 10:11 AM)
cringe,
I think your daughter the teacher should contact Social Services and see if they could find out what's going on in her household. I'm not kidding! :(

That was my thought too. If she's been taught to pose like that, you have to wonder what else is going on in that home.

valjean - November 2, 2008 11:42 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Rebecca65 @ Nov 2 2008, 05:05 PM)
QUOTE (ketzpjz @ Nov 2 2008, 10:11 AM)
cringe,
  I think your daughter the teacher should contact Social Services and see if they could find out what's going on in her household. I'm not kidding! :(

That was my thought too. If she's been taught to pose like that, you have to wonder what else is going on in that home.

yeah - maybe she's been watching too much Hannah Montana or playing movie star too much


cringe - November 3, 2008 01:23 AM (GMT)
Valjean, your daughter looks like a beautiful young girl -- playing dress up!!!

The photo of the Kindergartener was a lot more sexified, even though there were no fake moles or wigs involved.

However, there was nothing else about the girl's behavior to indicate that there was anything wrong at home. It was just that one very odd and inappropriate pose. But it is possible, as Valjean hints, that she just saw someone in a movie or TV show or somewhere else (maybe a much older sister?) pose that way and just tried to duplicate it. And did it astonishingly well.

Who knows. But teachers need to be very careful about involving DCFS. That can go incredibly wrong very quickly.

pudge75071 - November 3, 2008 02:41 AM (GMT)
Think about the movie "Who framed Roger Rabbit" and Warner Brothers also had some episodes with "Bugs" bunny pretending to be a girl to fool "Yosemite Sam."

When my oldest was about 4 .....she dressed up in her sparkly dress and came in to where we were entertaining some hubbys students from the UK. She tilted her head and batted her eye lashes at them. (I have no idea where she got this from because she has never seen me do something like that much less wear a dress.)

Most of them were fathers and were all very sweet to her.

Beyonce Knowles (singer) has come out with a childrens clothing line that many have described as………well ……here is a small part of one review

QUOTE
“ Because children’s clothing hasn’t become suggestive enough, Beyonce Knowles is out with a new clothing line called Dereon that just is perfect for Mommy’s Little Hooker or anyone wanting to recreate the JonBenet Ramsey look:
These little girls, who look like they are no older than my second grader cousin, are seductively posed and tarted up in a pedophilia-chic style that is more Little Girl Gone Wild than Little Princess and is a sad indictment on a culture that would turn seven year olds into real-life Lolitas.”


I guess that my point is that kids do pick it up in cartoons but this stuff is hitting them in all directions these days. I have a hard time finding girls jeans for my oldest that doesn’t have half of her butt cheeks hanging out. Some clothing stores even sell padded bras for children. What is disturbing is that some parents ARE BUYING these things for their kids. :angry: :angry: :angry:

valjean - November 3, 2008 03:51 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (pudge75071 @ Nov 2 2008, 09:41 PM)
Beyonce Knowles (singer) has come out with a childrens clothing line that many have described as………well ……

I heard about the line being that atrocious. I've seen some of the clothes too on some websites and without the models, to tell you the truth, the stuff doesn't look any more tarty than the crap in regular dept. stores these days.

Well, when I was 11 years old, I wanted to be a singer. I loved Rock and Roll. I still do, but anyway there was one of those recording studios offering singing lessons near where I lived. Free audition and so on. So I put on some of my mom's face makeup and lipstick (my mom didn't wear eye makeup), a skirt and what was a grown-up fashion back then - a Ben Casey shirt.

user posted image

I put on some nylons and my mom's high heels and wobbled up to the avenue to ask them for a free audition. After they got done laughing at me in the other room, they let me sing and they were saying, great! she's harmonizing. They said I could take the lessons if I got my mom's permission and the money (can't remember the price).

I went home and told my mom, who was shocked (not by my appearance, I had changed). "That's a racket," she proclaimed. Everything was a racket to my mom, so I tried to convince her that not everyone passes the audition. No sale. I didn't get to go but at least the people at the studio had a good laugh at my attempt to be grownup.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

P.S. The song I sang was "Breaking Up Is Hard To Do" - fast version, the slow one wasn't around yet.

cringe - November 3, 2008 04:03 AM (GMT)
Cute story!

But sadly, I can't see the picture. I just get a red x in a little box and the words "user posted image"! I'm so disappointed!!!!! :(

valjean - November 3, 2008 04:20 AM (GMT)
maybe this link to the imdb page it is on will work -

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm293050368/tt0054519

Ben Casey was almost as popular as Dr. Kildare back then, I remember Dr. Kildare (Richard Chamberlain) had a record out "All I Have To Do is Dream" (also recorded by Everly Bros), but I don't think he had a shirt named after him.

cringe - November 3, 2008 04:24 AM (GMT)
Ah yes. Ben Casey. I remember him well.

What's funny is though, that I thought it was going to be a picture of YOU wearing your lipstick and your Ben Casey shirt and lookin' all cool for the auditiion! :lol:

Oh, and the picture is there now in your original place where the red x used to be!

valjean - November 3, 2008 04:39 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (cringe @ Nov 2 2008, 11:24 PM)
Ah yes.  Ben Casey.  I remember him well.

What's funny is though, that I thought it was going to be a picture of YOU wearing your lipstick and your Ben Casey shirt and lookin' all cool for the auditiion! :lol:

Oh, and the picture is there now in your original place where the red x used to be!

That would indeed be very funny. :D :D :D I remember how I looked and it was pretty ridiculous.

Unfortunately, it wasn't exactly a Kodak moment since my mom never saw me in the outfit and probably would have tanned my hide instead of taking a picture if she did see it.

ketzpjz - November 3, 2008 07:27 PM (GMT)
Valjean,cute photo of your 9-year-old but there's a big difference between a 9-year-old having fun on Halloween and a 5-year-old posing for a serious school photograph.
cringe,
I agree that one should be careful about reporting stuff but if your daughter thinks there's something fishy going on in that household, it may not hurt for her to consider contacting Social Services to check it out. Still, it's sad indeed that so often they seem to either go Gestapo over nothing OR refuse to lift a finger even when the abuse is hideously blatant to everyone else with eyes and ears! :hair:

valjean - November 3, 2008 07:48 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (ketzpjz @ Nov 3 2008, 02:27 PM)
Valjean, cute photo of your 9-year-old but there's a big difference between a 9-year-old having fun on Halloween and a 5-year-old posing for a serious school photograph.

ketz, thanks -- it wasn't Halloween -- she was just playing with the costume box.

The point I was trying making with the pix is that the Jon Benet or stage mother syndrome is not always going on as people nowadays seem so ready to conclude. As others have also said, kids today are bombarded with not only TV and magazines, but the internet and it just may be something the kid saw and imitated.

The point I was trying to make with the singer story is that kids sometimes do things their parents aren't even aware of. As you can see, I was quite the enterprising child myself and I recall another time I saw some foreign coins being offered FREE in a comic book, so I filled out the form to get them and the catch was you had to sell their product, which was some kind of salve. So they sent a couple of cases of salve to my house with the free coins and of course my parents wanted to know why these boxes were addressed to me. I got punished but my father let me keep the foreign coins. I was 8 years old then, back in the day when television was censored but that comic book ad lured me in.

valjean - December 26, 2008 07:01 PM (GMT)
Dear Annie: I think "Photographic Phriendship's" discomfort with the seductive pictures her co-worker is showing of her 12-year-old daughter is a non-issue.
I'm 14, and whenever I get together with friends, we apply heavy makeup and jokingly take pictures of ourselves in provocative poses. There is never any kind of sexual intent behind them. Our moms just roll their eyes.

I don't think it's fair for you to accuse mothers of portraying their children as sex objects merely because one 12-year-old is trying to grow up too quickly. — Little Tart in California

Dear California: We know you don't think it's a big deal to take provocative photos of yourself or your friends. But when Mom is taking the pictures and showing them off to her co-workers, it's a different problem. Read on for another perspective:


Dear Annie: I am a retired corrections officer of over 25 years. I read in horror the letter from "Photographic Phriendship" about a mother who was sharing sexually provocative photos of her preteen daughter in the workplace. There is a market for such photos, and any picture is at risk of being lost, stolen or shared with the wrong person, and can be scanned, copied and distributed worldwide via the Internet. Once those photos are out there, they are out there forever.

At worst, such photos could place this child in real danger from sexual predators. Even discounting the danger, does the mother want these photos seen by everyone in the child's church or school? These photos could follow her into college and beyond. Sexually provocative photos of any child is a very bad idea. — Concerned Oregon Grandfather

Dear Oregon: We miss the days when old photographs used to end up in a box in the closet.

pudge75071 - December 26, 2008 10:21 PM (GMT)
Way to go Grandpa!




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