Nice to see that Vala is taking up Daniel's "Mantle of Redemption" in his absence, and that Cam is not letting his never-say-never attitude falter.

thanks for the link to 'youtube' Cleo...I couldn't get it on my own...kept putting in 'the', lol
Geez, I almost choked on my nachos when Vala tried persuade Tomin to return to the planet with her...I thought WTH is she doing?...which is course begs the question...what are Vala's feelings about Daniel?

yea I was a little put off when she said she did fall in love with Tomin...

For a refresher, here was my comment on Vala and Tomin vs. Vala and Daniel (posted back on the "Counterstrike" discussion, actually):

Still pretty relevant, especially as Tomin DIDN'T put his feelings for Vala before his religious beliefs (just against the word of a representative of his 'gods').

Some interesting thoughts Cleo.
Here's another question: is it possible that Daniel, given that he already knows how he reacts when she disappears, has a clue(for want of a better way of putting it,lol)....the expression shown on his face at the end of MM is pretty intense and fierce...and that he's just standing back waiting for Vala to catch up...OR is he really still just rationalizing everything?

When you think of it from that perspective, it could be that he is waiting for an HONEST reaction from her. All of her "passes" at him to this point have been humorous, flippant, sarcastic, or so ridiculously over-the-top, that maybe all Daniel wants to see from Vala is a "serious" expression of her feelings. That, and he's surely aware that she DOES (or as the case may now be, "did") have a husband out there whom she still loves.

He's a bright guy, after all, and while he occasionally has trouble with expressing his own emotions (especially the "deeper" ones), he has no difficulty empathizing with the feelings of others. Vala habitually masks her emotions with unusual behavior, which is surely more than a little confusing to him. She practically bounces this whole episode, as though trying to convince herself she's all right even though he's gone.

*stops herself before trying to dig too deeply into the psyches of fictional characters...*

yeah I know that is kinda weird to do but when creating characters for my own writing(something that isn't fanfiction,lol) it is necessary to a certain degree to delve as deep as possible into understanding the psychological motivations so that the characters develop and interact with each other as true to human nature as possible otherwise the reader may get pulled out of the storyline because one of the characters isn't acting true to personality/backstory.

there's not much else i can add to the discussion on the daniel/vala relationship cause its already been said. i will say however, that i think deep down vala and daniel have a deep respect for one another and have feelings for one another. the problem always is though that they're not used to expressing their true feelings but, you know they care about one another just by the way they act toward one another.

Tomin, on the other hand, is another story. he loves vala but he can't put his feelings for her above the ori. i'll be interested to see how the writers choose to deal with him in the last few episodes. seeing as that vala will be in the 2 direct to dvd movies i can't imagine they would keep Tomin around any longer than either the series finale or the 1st dvd since it deals with the end of the ori.

I got the impression they've already "dealt" with Tomin. I doubt the Prior let him live after letting Vala go... but I might still be surprised.

well according to the spoilers i've seen for the first of the stargate movies, tomin is in it and defects from the ori.

I'll admit to having seen this episode through "creative means" earlier in the year so when I watched it again on Friday I was surprised that I had previously missed where Vala said she had fallen in love with him.

The first time around I only remembered hearing that there had been real moments and that she had loved him. I was a bit taken aback by the fallen in love with part, but in thinking over their relationship, I can't be surprised that she'd have had moments where she'd have been in love with him. He treated her wonderfully (At least in the past he treated her well-I adored her line to Tomin after he hit her "You should kill me now." Sure she and Daniel duked it out, but its all about the context. Grrr) and I imagine she'd have fallen a little in love with her savior from the circle where she'd have been chained. (Granted, he'd been a bit of a coward letting her be chained without a by your leave in the first place)

But while its been established that she would like to save him from himself, I don't think whatever little flicker of love she conjured up during their time together survived past his transformation into soilder.

By the time she ran into Daniel after Adria was born, she seemed only a triffle dismayed that she couldn't get Tobin to see the light. Very resigned to the fact.

I didn't see her wanting him to come with her off the Ori ship as anything to do with a rekindling romance, she was grateful to him, knew him as a truely good man, and would like for him to not be a part of the Ori's mass killing machine. She never said she had current feelings, but Vala wouldn't be above using Tomin's attachment to her to pursude him away.

In the end, I still think her feelings for Daniel supersede any amount of caring she might have toward Tomin. After all, Daniel is the original truely great man, anything else is just a pale imatation.

Sorry for the thesis length post.

loved the episode.

i couldn't help but notice the religious undertones of the episode and how the Prior twisted the meaning of the story to (quoting Tomin here) "justify killing those people."

Vala did say she fell in love with Tomin because of his innocence and how he couldn't become a killer...she saw that there wasn't a bad bone in his body. When she asked him to go with her I almost expected him to agree, but he decided to go down the whole 'noble sacifice' path (which in a way was a sort of redemption for him).

Vala never gave up on Tomin when she was on the Ori ship, she still thought that he was worth saving even though most people (i think) had written him off as a hopeless cause.

Cam was great with his 'never leave a man behind' attitude and i think some of Sam's techno-know how is rubbing off on him because that was one heck of a lucky guess.

And we now know that he can't cook (but what guy can?).

I can see Vala being in love with Tomin's innocence. With his care for her, and who knows maybe more. However, I think that that sort of love is not lasting. Tomin isn't a match for her. Or, he's only starting to become a match for her - strength, willingness to do whatever to survive, sacrifice, etc. Daniel is much more of a match for her as far as that goes.

As for as Can Cam Cook? I think so. He was going on during "The Fourth Horseman" (can't remember if it's one or two) about making an omlette with some fairly gourmet ingredients. I think that Sam just doesn't like macaroons.

Personally, I think that Vala did care for Tomin (maybe not the same way as for Daniel, but it as there). He took care of her, rescued her when the village elders left her to die, and seemed excited about her baby -willing to raise it as his own. That's an admirable thing. Despite her feelings for Daniel, which were pretty evident when Cam told her that now, she was a part of the team (when Daniel kept putting his head in the "head sucker," thingy), how could she NOT still care for Tomin? He was a great guy and still is, though seriously mislead by the Ori. And, as soon a he saw the problem with his beliefs, he wasn't afraid to question them. Anyone ever done that? I have, and it's not easy. You have to accept that what you've believed before is flawed, therefore, you own self assurace get's thrown out of whack. Tomin wasn't afraid to question those beliefs when faced with the prior's deception. AND, in the long run, he sent her back to earth to save her. Tomin isn't the villain here. He was a pawn and realized it. He still loves her and sent her away for her safety.

I wonder now how Vala will come to terms with her feelings for both men. Having NOT seen the next episodes like some overseas have, I think it's an interesting problem for her to face.