I love the FA Cup. I love being at an FA Cup final, there's always the sense of being at an historic occasion. But I do feel that the FA Cup is dying a bit these days.

The top sides see it as a side-issue, and it's not just the top sides not taking it seriously, you have sides like Blackburn putting out half-reserve sides. When we played them last season I was excited about the first FA Cup game at the new stadium but it was a real let-down. They brought very few fans, a big section of the stadium was empty and the atmosphere was very flat. FA Cup games used to always have a real buzzing atmosphere because of the large number of away fans.

In general attendances seem to be quite low in the 3rd round.

The top sides see the CL as where it's at these days, and because of the way the top 4 qualify we can qualify year on year - even in two relatively poor seasons, by recent standards, we qualified. In days of yore you'd only have one side in the European Cup from each country so the domestic cup was a real priority for most sides, now you have up to 4 so the domestic cup becomes a distraction. You don't need to win the FA Cup to get a European place, it's easier to do that through league position so teams concentrate on that.

Also, the gap between the top few and the rest is such that the 'romance of the Cup' where anyone can beat anyone and sides from lower divisions can dream of lifting the trophy is long gone. I know we had some giant killings today, and that's great, but even in the Premiership only the top few have a serious chance of winning it. I was at Uni the last time anyone outside the top few sides won it.


So...
Well.
Just a general lament about the state of modern football really.

I cannot remember the last time the 3rd Round has been so much of a damp squib.

So what if Coventry beat Blackburn Reserves?

Even when they treat it in a half-arsed manner as they have since ManUre dropped out of the Cup for a holiday in Brazil, the Top 4 win it with ease. :sleep:

Good post Letters, pretty much agree with everything.

I'd say it's a glorifed Carling Cup now in many teams eyes, no one really "cares" until the quarter final stage. I look forward to the CC more because I love watching our youngsters play.

I was not exicted about this weekend in the slightest, since we beat West Ham all i've been looking forward to is the Birmingham game.

well i love the the fa cup third round, always something special watching it even when it is not as good.


Although lineker made a great point at the villa match that teams such as blackburn etc should treat it as their only realistic chance of a trophy and tbh thats true, if they put their full strength teams out then they would have chances

But that's the point. In days of yore that would be right, it would be their only chance of a trophy so they'd go for it. Now the gap between the top few and the rest is such that no-one outside the top 4 has much of a chance. The proof of that being the winners in the last 12 years.

Teams like Blackburn see getting in to Europe as the way to progress and their best chance of them doing that these days is league position. That is clearly where their priority lays.

Yeah i was at the Blackburn game last year and was very disappointed by Blackburn's crowd, but in fairness it was an early kick off. But i was at the semi final in Cardiff back in 2005 and Blackburn's section was empty then too!... in a semi final!.

I dunno, I think it's inevitable, globalization has done it's bit on European football. The main domestic competition is the league, and the prestigious cups are now the European ones, and I actually think that that's a pretty good structure.

I think you're right to an extent, but it's just another symptom of the gap these days between the top few and 'the rest'. A gap which I think it very bad for football, even though of course I'm delighted that we're one of the 'haves'.

I think, Letters, that when people began calling it the "best cup competition in the world", it was setting itself up for a big fall. Not only do we want the magic, the giant-killing and the awful pitches that prove the great leveller, but we want the glory as well. We want an Arsenal, Manchester United, Liverpool or even Spurs to lift the Cup.

We can't really have it both ways.

As for being the best cup competition in the world- what exactly makes it so? Why is the Copa Italia inferior to our FA Cup? Or the King's Cup in Spain? Aren't they both organised with club teams drawn against each randomly?

Ooh, and can I change my username back to 'The Merse', please?

Thanking you!

In fairness, it has well over a 100 years of history - making it the oldest competition around.

But as with all things in football, times change.

"....gap which I think is very bad for football"

I couldn't agree with you more, mate. We're so bloody lucky to be in G14. I don't think it's long before they form their own breakaway European Super League to be played out over the course of a domestic season.

I don't think it's a healthy situation at all, if I'm honest. If I was a Pompey, Villa, Everton or Man City fan, I'd be very depressed about the state of affairs.

:rose: RIP Football if that happens.

I think it *was* the best domestic cup in the world, simply because of the history and the prestige it had - not just in England, but around the world. Schmeichal said earlier on the BBC that when he was growing up he'd watch the FA Cup final every year, it's broadcast around the world, and dreamed of winning it - more than winning the league title in England.

It was the best in the world, now it's just another distraction from the league and European competitions. Pity.

The FA Cup is no different to any other cup in any other country.

if we win it then great, if we dont, well i wont lose any sleep over it.

Also it makes me laugh when pundits say no top 4 team has won the FA Cup since 1995

Chelsea werent a top 4 team in 1997

I couldn't help but cringe when the presenter of Score kept eulogising about the Cup as if its the greatest thing on Earth.

Clearly it once had an importance, but like others have noted, the globalisation and capitalisation of Football, and new audiences means that the Cup, along with the League Cup is just another fixture in the season.

there is nothing like the Cup final saturday

watching the coverage and the team arrive

but only when Arsenal are playing

Well that might well be true now, but historically it isn't. It certainly wasn't true when I was a kid.

When I was young were the French, Spanish or Italian domestic Cup Finals shown over here? Course not. Who cares about that? But the FA Cup Final was shown worldwide. You just have to listen to foreign players who come over here and say they watched it as a kid and dreamt of playing in the final one day, lifting the trophy. Kids would dream of lifting the FA Cup more than they dreamt of lifting the Division One title. There was something very special about the FA Cup in days of yore.

The country used to stop on FA Cup Final day, it was a national event, always shown on BBC1 and ITV (although everyone watched it on BBC!), there were hours of build up, pretty much everyone watched it. You have to remember that in those days there was very little football on TV, for some people it was the only live game they would have seen all year. Or certainly one of the few. It was special.

Now it's become just another distraction from the Premiership - which is where the real money is, and football is just about money these days. And for the top few it's a distraction from the CL. And one of the top few always win it anyway these days. The gap between them and the rest is such that no-one else has much of a chance. As for Chelsea winning it on 1997. OK, they weren't a top 4 side, but they were 6th. You have to go back to 1995 when Everton won it (they finished 15th) to find a truly mid-table side winning it.

It certainly has lost it's attraction, which is a shame, 3rd round day was always a season highlight. It's of little real importance to the so called top 4, certainly the early rounds, in terms of priority. People talk about the prize being a place in the ueffa cup, not about actually winning the FA cup. But seeing as the prize is the same as the Carling Cup, i.e europe, the timing of the CCup is better for the 'prem also rans' to play their A side, than the FA cup is. The premier league is killing it off,more than the Champions league, no doubt about that, the pressure to stay in this league for half of the clubs, outweighs a serious attempt at lifting the FA cup, in their priorities.

It has lost some of it's glamour perhaps, but that is a symptom of modern times - things change and they always will. There are several factors that made the FA Cup 'great', some of which are watered down or commercialised, some of which no longer apply.

Obviously, it is the oldest (?) football cup competition in the world. When the Football League instigated the League Cup, the FA Cup was still the big trophy and the League Cup (now the CC) was always a 'second best' cup from the start. But that is history, and history and tradition change or lose their importance according to the times. It may come back as an important factor some time in the future but right now, tradition is of low value. Maybe get a resurgence by calling it 'The Retro Cup'. ;)

Another thing some of the younger fans may not realise is the 'live football' factor. In the old days, apart from international matches, the FA Cup final was the only live football match shown on television throughout the year. That made it a very big deal. You had MOTD on BBC and 'The Big Match' on ITV every weekend, MOTD late on Saturday evening, TBM on Sunday lunchtime. However, all of this was just highlights and you usually knew the result. The FA Cup was the nearest thing to a live match you could get, short of going to a ground. (I won't delve into the fact that in those days I could just turn up at the Arsenal 10 minutes before even a big match, pay my pound and walk straight into the clock end in easy time for kick-off along with 65,000 other people. Ah, the atmosphere! :cloud9: But times have changed there as well.)

As mentioned by many above, it is also now hard for a team outside the top 4 to win the FA Cup or even make the final. This is a shame. I will always remember the 1973 FA Cup final between Div 1 leaders Leeds and Div 2 middle team Sunderland. THAT was great viewing seeing the underdogs prevail against the odds on the day. That is one of the things that made the FA Cup special.

If PL teams choose to play a lesser squad and lose, it does diminish the competition which is a shame. However it is no different from us and manu not playing our first team in the CC. Granted the CC has less kudos than the FA Cup but the principle is the same.

There is another factor, perhaps. The way matches are refereed these days means that the hard tackling and physical game that used to be played has gone. Some of the giant killing was done by the underdogs playing a 'hard' game. In those circumstances, the lower team could counter the superior skill of the higher team by, in effect, kicking them off the park. Again, we have complained about this kind of tactic from other PL clubs. Do we want to allow such play, because that is realistically what would have to happen if we wanted the minnows to be able to get any distance in the FA Cup? I wonder if that is also the reason why it is now just the top sides who can win it. Perhaps the skill factor has become much more important so that teams who physically challenged in the past can no longer get a result. (Come to think of it, English / British football historically was always physical in that way. Perhaps the so called demise of the English game is that you are no longer allowed to kick the shit out of the opposition and actually have to use skill and the feeder system does not recognise that yet.)

FA Cup, I love you.

Did you clock all the empty seats at Turf Moor?

would have never happened in my day :oldboy:

I love the cup. Still... Burnley didn't sell out even when the team top of the Premiership came :lol:

That was Burnley's biggest attendance of the season in fairness.

Their policy was also that you had to buy a ticket for another game in order to get a ticket.

It will have paid off for them in the long run.

For one game, maybe. If a load of irregulars came to watch that shit and watch them being humiliated then I doubt they'll be back.

I couldn't give a damn about the early stage of the FA Cup, when it gets to the quarters then I get interested.

The same with every cup competition for me though. The league is the only thing that consistantly holds my attention.

You guys make me sick, i was still smiling about the results this weekend and that Bolton, Sunderland, Blackburn, Everton, Villa etc are all already out of the cup and here is a thread slating it.

Well thanks a lot for spoiling my mood. :sulk:

I don't think *only* the top four have a chance of winning it. Southampton got to the final in 2003, Millwall in 2004. Southampton gave us a bloody good game as well.

And who ultimately won?

Fact is, 1995 is the last time anyone other than last year's top 4 won it.

Just another symptom of the ever growing gap between the haves and the have-nots.

A game of two haves then? :getcoat:

The Southampton game could've gone either way. If it was in the Prem and we'd beaten them, it wouldn't have meant that Southampton couldn't have won it just because we're in the top 4.

And as for the "magic of the FA Cup" missing... http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/fa_cup/7184890.stm

Could've, but didn't.


In 91-92, we as reigning Div 1 champions went and lost at Wrexham in the 3rd round - Wrexham who had finished rock bottom of the old Div 4 but not gone down because the ground of the Conference side wasn't good enough or something. As painful as that result was, that was what the FA Cup was about. That's what football was about. From a neutral point of view it was brilliant. That just can't happen now. We can put a 2nd string side out there and cruise in 2nd gear past even decent lower league opposition - or even Premiership opposition in the Carling Cup it seems. Obviously I'd rather we were one of the haves than have nots, but it's all very depressing for the game and none of the top sides would ever agree to measures which would level the playing field. And the top sides have too much power for any such measures to be imposed.

The Havent & Waterlooville result is brilliant and yes, them getting their day out at Anfield is what the Cup is all about. It's just a pity that so many FA Cup games these days have so many empty seats and that, ultimately, one of the top 4 sides will almost certainly win it. Even Spurs fan friends of mine said their replay was for the right to lose to ManYoo in the next round. Even Spurs - the team who have finished 5th the last 2 seasons - beating ManYoo at their place would be seen as a shock result.

I believe the reason Wrexham were allowed to stay up was because the non League's champions ground wasn't up to football league standards.

You're right but i've neber got my head round that. For instance Stevenage can play an FA cup tie at home to Newcastle, full to the rafters, yet their stadium is deemed unfit to play possible league games, with a much smaller attendence.

Anyone who watched the FA Cup tie between Man City and West Ham on Wednesday would`ve seen more evidence to add to the argument that the FA Cup has lost it`s magic.

Half empty stadium, Lack of atmosphere, Poor quality game..

Personally, although i think it has lost abit of it`s magic. It`s not lost it completly. The Havant & Waterlooville game against Swansea in which H & W knocked out Swansea to set up a match against Liverpool at Anfield, shows that there still is magic and romance left in the cup.

Call me a Scrooge, but I fail to see how that's "magic". It's a horribly one-sided game. Havant and Waterlooville's tie at Anfield should not be broadcast on t'telly, for the reason I've outlined.

It's great for H&W's players to get a run out at Anfield, but will it be what every neutral wants to endure sitting at home? The possibility of a cricket score and the chance for Liverpool to flex their muscles.

This is why I can completely understand why fans wouldn't have enjoyed the Man Utd-Roma, Arsenal-Steaua and Liverpool-Besiktas games recently as they stopped being contests almost as soon as they'd begun!

Anyways, I've gone off on a tangent now, but I think the real magic is still when a lesser team invites one of the Premiership big boys to their sodden ground and ruffles their feathers enough to snatch a famous win.

(The last one I can think of is Cardiff v Leeds' first team in 2002 when Leeds were top of the Premiership)

How about Everton 0-1 Oldham?

Everton still had Graveson, Carsley, Pienaar, Johnson and Jagielka on the field despite playing League 1 opposition.

You see, that's still not a full strength squad. Leeds played all of their first team while they were sitting pretty at the top of the Premiership (in fact, WE could have been top, I can't quite remember now) and they went on to lose to a Division 2 side.

Leeds were 1-0 up, their fans were buoyant. Cardiff equalised and scored the winner in the 80-something minute. Sam Hamamm's surreal antics around the pitch while the match was going on incited crowd trouble.

Now THAT was magic!

:whistle:

:lol: