ADE-WHY-OR - goal.com

at the moment i think our best option is to take the money and run, he is unsettled and doesnt want to play for us anymore

he really won me over last season and i became a fan, but im dissapointed now and think we could do much better with the sort of figures being quoted at the moment, anything over 25 million we should accept

I think he is a good striker and was brilliant last season. He isn't worth the £32m or £30m quoted in the papers though, so if we recieve an offer of that amount we should accept it and sign a couple of players with the funds, obviously we would need a striker if Adebayor does leave.

I think that's exactly the dilemma Wenger is facing and is thinking about...

No

Rather stating the obvious so can't disagree with a word of it.

That is a classic goal.com piece.
* In terms of facts, we learn nothing new about the transfer saga. In fact. he leaves out the most important and illuminating facts, like what Ade's said or what Arsenal is paying Ade.
* In terms of analysis, he doesn't give a single piece of evidence or a single reason to support his assertions. Seriously, all you aspiring writers should study this piece. Count how many sentences contain assertions about Ade's quality. Then count how many sentences give a reader any reason to believe the assertions. It's a great example of really bad writing.

And you can tell that the conclusions are based on an astoundingly superficial understanding of football.

.
*Ade is an entirely different type of striker from Huntelaar -- I doubt this thought even entered the writer's mind, but it makes it impossible to compare them without first considering what standards we're going to use to compare them.
* We're not told how we should evaluate the fact that Huntelaar's been scoring goals in the Eredivisie, which only sometimes works as a true test of quality

also since when has this been true?

by whom?

He is not the most overrated. He is overrated, though.

If it's true that he's demanding 120k then send him packing..

Agree with JF about the Gomez/Huntelaar bit, thats just a stupid statement to make..

I wrote that. :getcoat:

I don't really believe you, but it's certainly possible. You seem to have become more unreflective recently, evincing a desire to have strong, authoritative opinions but little desire to think at all hard about them. Sort of, "Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

I don't understand what that post means.

Could you explain it, in normal English? :unsure: :whistle:

If you did write it I think there is little to criticise...apart from the fact I have not been referenced.

I disagree entirely with Jens as an opinion piece does not require the stats and analysis the he seems obsessed with and gives far more credence to than they deserve.

:good:

Naah I didn't write it. Haven't done football writing for a while now. :)

you mean, like, "pwned"?

Exactly! :goodpost:

that brings up something that's been perplexing me recently

can someone said to have been "literally pwned"? It wouldn't be wrong in the normal Redknappian sense, like "he was literally over the moon in delight"

the question is can someone be literally something-that-has-no-meaning-whatsoever-in-English?

statistics are too pliable and cant tell the whole story anyway,

admittedly there is no picture on a scorecard, but there is a difference between a player who can run past 3 or 4 defenders and score from the edge of the box, and a player who gets a tap in from in front the goal,

yet statistically they both count for the same!

He's very overrated watching him he doesn't look anything special at all and like the above poster says, his goals are generally tap-ins and don't involve beating defenders.

Moreover he gets caught offside a ridiculous amount of times! I'm not a fan and his attitude stinks.

I'd say he's very underrated.

:coffee:

you guys might be misunderstanding me. I'm not asking for stats or anything nearly that specific. I'm simply asking for any reason whatsoever that might support the conclusions. It could be stats, it could be analysis of his qualities, it could be his stunning good looks. It could be anything.

But the writer gives nothing. The whole article is a string of conclusionary statements with no support, no warrant, no nothing at all. People who don't rate Ade will find it brilliant, since it's telling them what they already believe. But people who do rate Ade or -- this is crucial -- people who haven't made up their mind or are interested in learning something new will find nothing of value in the piece. The article is "Ade sucks, Ade's not as good as random striker, Ade sucks, It was surprising that Ade didn't suck as bad as I expected last season, Ade sucks." We aren't given a single reason to believe that Ade sucks, or even to understand why the writer thinks Ade sucks. Persuasion is impossible (unless you find banal repetition persuasive.)

If you don't believe me, seriously go ahead and count the conclusionary assertions and then count the reasons (any kind) given in support of the assertions.

I'm really not criticizing it for being wrong. I'm criticizing it for sucking. And giving reasons in support of my criticisms. :good:

Very very poor article. In fact the only thing good and credible about it is the title- if only someone had been kind enough to point this out to the silly author and maybe me, five minutes ago

Kind of you not to include the previous part of the Shakespeare quote, Jens!

I agree - poor writing...albeit that the premise - namely that £30+M for him would be good business, is sound.

Its only good business if you can replace him or do it a different way.
When wenger sold TH14 he knew he could do it a different way (ie get us to play differently with different personnel).
Ade is not replaceable. Others offer parts of his game (Cruz his heading) but no one has the all round package and we know wenger plays great importance on the impact Ade has on the game in creating gaps and frightening our opponents, something Bendy just can't do and few others can.
So can he do it another way?? That's a big call, changing the attack wholesale after one season (remember Hleb too may well be off) with two kids (vela/walcott), one cripple (eduardo) and one half cripple (RVP) and a kid who'll improve (bendy) plus changing his CM ...i think that's why arsene doesn't want to sell. What he has now works and lets be clear Ade will improve and get better and better. Why fans don't rate him is interesting as both Terry and Ferdinand regard him as the hardest striker to play against in the EPL and two of europe's top 3 teams are coming in their pants over him...so eother they are fools or GWers are missing the point.

Excellent post T&T

:goodpost:

The GW blog has gone to his head.



You had a good start to the year though TEG :good:

:goodpost:

Is he really over rated though?

In monetary and media terms at present, then yes without question but in footballing terms? I can't recall too many people placing him (both fans and media) in the world class bracket. If it was to be in the section below that (which is...?) then I could possibly go along with that and I think it's roughly there that a lot of fans/media view him.

At the same time, it's hard to find a balanced view from an Arsenal fan now, as his attributes are either over blown or totally rejected, depending on which side of the barbed wire you listen to.

I'm not listening to any side of the barbed wire -- it sounds far too potentially painful.

I wonder, though, about your making a distinction between "footballing" terms and "monetary" terms.

It seems to me that the reported prices the Italians(forgotten which lot) would be willing to pay for him is a reflection of their(mis) judgement about his footballing ability, for the one surely influences the other. In which case, from my point of view, they seem to be over-rating him. Silly buggers. Let's take their money and run.

EDIT: Agree with you about the difficulty of finding a balanced view from our fans. I often think, and I'm sure you agree, that I'm the only GW member striving always to give a balanced view. Believe me, it's difficult.

if Darren bent is worth £16mil and £110k a week then ade is worth about £80mil and $500k a week

Its all relative, people say Berbatov is world class......how many goals does he score?

Ahhgghhh

This damn barbed wire.........


The money being offered for him is just plain daft. I was won around by Ade last season...ok there was hardly a sea change needed when he can bang one in like the one at WHL.

I would like to think its just AW's genius at work again....take a so so player..play to his strengths and then after a suitible period get back our investment ten fold.


sell im ...... for top dollar

I think he is worth more to us than anyone else which is why I am kinda surprised about the interest in him this summer. We tend to play differently to most teams and our unique style can often lead to us needing highly specialised players in some positions, I think Ade fits perfectly with what we need at the moment and losing him would be a disappointment and would set us back (although I do think Bentdner has the talent to do it in a slightly different way so it isn't a disaster).

First thing Ade has is pace which isn't actually as necessary to playing in our team now as it was but still gives him the ability to take the ball out wide and draw players in as well* as giving us the 'hoof it over the top' option.

Secondly he gives us a bit of an aerial threat and a physical presence up front, something which is VERY important to us given the whole 'put it up 'em' approach of teams towards us.

Thirdly he is good at bringing the best out of other players, not a particularly unique quality but one that is generally handy.

If you add the fact that he does score goals then we have a quick, physical guy who now knows how to play 'Arsenal' and is scoring goals for us. If he was in any other team I honestly don't think he would have broken the 20 goal barrier and wouldn't have been as essential as a 'quick big man' as most teams don't have central attacking midfielders or strikers playing on the wing. Whether you agree or not with what Wenger does with the setup of the rest of the team or not the fact remains that Ade does a lot of good work for us that would not be as essential in other teams and this is why I don't think him moving would be good for anyone but if we get 25m+ for him that is more than he worth to us so may as well take the cash and get in Santa Cruz and hope for the best.

*Midfielders really should be taking advantage of the space he creates, I lay this fairly and squarely at the midfielders in question *cough*Hleb*cough*

One of the best posts I've seen about Ade's worth to the team. :goodpost:

I think you would be less mystified by the interest shown in him if you stopped thinking that our style of play is so special. We pass a lot. We pass the ball, and often any attacking play, to death at times.

It is not rocket science, other teams pass quite a bit too. Besides, so what he now plays the supposed Arsenal way? After a few months he could be playing in some other way -- the Wimbledon way for all I know.

But that said, I agree with your conclusion that if someone really does want to give us 24m pounds for him, we should go whooping and cheering all the way to the bank, and go for Cruz, or someone else who can score goals without the rest of the world thinking that this is an amazing -- almost mystical -- thing for a professional football forward to do.

EDIT: I'd get that cough seen to before pre-season training starts

Very rarely has a player so ordinary attracted so much attention and praise!

Bit harsh on Lampard..

is he still here? :coffee:

Bit harsh on CK..

:lol:

Arent you the one who always says the sign of a good player is how many big clubs are after him?

Dont come much bigger than Milan and Barca.

Or does that logic not work for Ade cos it makes you look foolish?