This isn't a dig at Ramsey but I just can't see the logic in buying him.

Wilshere is being touted as the next big thing. But he's the same age as Ramsey and is still playing in the U18's. Therefore Ramsey must be better than Wilshere.

We've then got Nasri, who we signed for £15m, who's best position is in the middle.

Assuming we play 4-4-2, something Wenger always prefer's to do, it's Cesc +1 in the middle.

That leaves Denilson, Nasri, Diaby ( :yikes: ) all ahead of Ramsey and Wilshere (who will have to be given a chance within the next two years) just behind him.

Plus it's widely expected that Wenger will sign anther CM this summer!

That's 6 CM's we'll have by the time Summer is over with the only possible exit being Diaby.

When Cesc calls it quits Ramsey will replace him I reckon.

Yeah, Cesc won't be around for ever.

I'd give him two more seasons. Tops.

It's about competition. Ramsey is only 18 - so he's in the bunch with Wilshere, Randall etc. fighting for a future at the club. Some might make it, some might not. I've been impressed with what I've seen from Ramsey this season - I can see why Wenger has taken a chance with him. Hopefully he'll be ready to make a bigger impact next season.

I like him too but I can't work out how he hasn't got in the team ahead of Denilson and Diaby. Diaby has been awful yet Ramsey hasn't really had a sniff of the first team apart from Porstmouth away.

I think our squad is FAR too big and needs cutting down. We need to sell 4 or 5 squad players and replace with 1 or 2 first teamers.

Why did we sign a promising youngster? In the hope of him developing into a better player I would think.

Some of it does have to do with Cesc not necessarily being a gooner for life, mostly though we just like to get the best young talent around. If he's ready to replace Cesc in 3 years say then we'll have spent 5m on a player who can come straight into the first team and pull the strings, rather than spending 20odd mil on a replacement who might not work out.

Don't forget to bolster squad depth. We all know Wenger doesn't buy experienced and expensive bench-warmers but prefers to have a gaggle of youngsters fighting it out.

Being down the pecking order right now isn't always a bad things ... with the likes of Cesc, Nasri, Denilson, Diaby and I guess you could possibly include the likes of Arshavin and Rosicky ... he has players to learn from, time to be taken focusing on development rather than just playing all the time ... then he (as with others) can become the finished article and push the others for a first team place.

The guy's got talent but it was a real luxury signing, 5 million on a player we didn't need when we had far greater problems in other positions. Doesn't make sense to me 5 million on him and 750k on Silvestre who proved we should have actually been paid to take him.

We should have invested that cash in a proper defender IMO.

It was probably a signing borne more out of making sure nobody else could get him, so Wenger could develop him, as he likes to do.

Hmm, whilst I agree with the sentiment Zimm, I can't help but think how much better would a defender we could have got for 5m be than Silvestre? We'd have had to buy a defender in from another league so there'd be the settling in and the possibility of just not fitting in, unless we wanted to take a punt on one of the defenders from lesser teams in the Premiership, Nosworthy?

I agree Zim. I like Ramsey but still don't understand why Wenger felt the need to pay 5mill upfront for him when we had other issues to deal with in the squad. It's all the more confusing if we're supposively struggling financially, seems to be a luxury signing.

I think Ramsey is a very talented player and in time may develop into a very good central midfielder but he's not what we need now.

If he has two legs and two arms he'd already be an improvement to be honest.

For near enough 6 million you can pick yourself up a decent player (how much did Vidic cost?), you could either get one from Eastern Europe or even someone from a smaller PL league yes....I'm sure Holland has a few decent defenders too.

Point is 6 million will get you someone pretty decent you only pay big money for the big names.

We got £6m from the sale of Bentley from Blackburn to Spurs :haha:

Best deal ever

I don't rate him.
The one game I got a good look at him was Cardiff away and he was rubbish.
(Although it was a pretty rubbish performance all round I suppose).


He obviously has talent but I've yet to see it. Hope he comes on over the next couple of years. I can see him getting very few games over the next couple of years and then leaving for <insert mid-table side here>

or that we woulve had alonso if we had a few mill extra to spend.

ramsey wasnt a bad buy but we needed to spend that money on other things

you wanted more homegrowns, and you got one.

im gutted toon went down. who are the big clubs going to offload overpriced overrated over the hill dross to now?

True but we weren't looking for a first choice CB, more a stand-in imo but *meh* point still stands, we needed another defender and Silvestre (overall) hasn't been good enough, hopefully our attitude has changed this summer and we're willing to do some decent negotiating.

You know Wenger though, if he doesn't get what he wants he'll buy a Frenchman, I think Silvestre comes into that category.

Tottenham are still there.

I don't think you can expect much from someone who only turned 18 this year. You have to be really special to impress at that age - Rooney, Messi et all.

I agree with Maccy that he was bought because Wenger thought he was special so wanted to get in before anyone else could. I think he's got the raw talent to make it here, but time will tell I guess.

"youve got david bentley
"youve got david bentley.

la la la la!
la la la la!

He's aint homegrown he's Welsh. :lol:

He's talented, I think he even played more than we'd have expected this year because of the crap at the start of the season added to the CC and FA Cup.

AW doesn't pay big money for just anyone and from what we've seen he's still very raw and not quite ready for regular action but he's got the ability.

As for why sign him - well yeah agree with all the above and the fact that we tend to collect up a lot of youth and develop them and at the end of the cycle see who's made the most progress and is ready.

I would think that this is the end, or near the end, of the cycle for the likes of Diaby and possibly the likes of Randall, Lansbury and Merida so they might all be let go, freeing up a bit of space and maybe giving Ramsey more opportunities. I think AW sees a similar role to Bendtner early doors for him, come on as a sub a lot and ease himself in.

That's not strictly true...Reyes cost loads, as did Jeffers and a few others.

Pennant cost a lot at the time (most expensive teenager when we signed him at the time).

Whilst I think Ramsey has talent AW does make errors as well.

I just thought in a game against his old club who are in a lower division he might have shone but he was poor.
Not fair to write someone off just because of that and I'm sure he does have talent but I've not seen much of it yet.
He is young though so we'll see.

I thought maybe the occasion got to him against Cardiff. Which is understandable.

And if he wasn't such an idiot he would have been worth what we paid and more imo, whatever you say about Pennant you can't doubt that he has talent.

No I don't mean in terms of them turning out to be flops, I'm saying in terms of ability. I know you might not agree :D but Jose was a fecking awesome talent that went wrong, Pennant (although he's turned out a bit crap) was a really talented kid at the time......err Jeffers, I think that's best left in the past.

Of course I acknowledge AW makes errors but generally when he pays a lot of money they turn out to be talents at the very least.

Reyes was never worth what we offered to pay, look at how he's done since he left...he's at Benfica now I think and has hardly pulled any trees out. I think he's a classic example of someone who's reputation is built on a handful of games. That sort of money should only be paid for the real deal and he just wasn't.

We should have kept hold of the money or tried to get Torres (though he was unproven too I guess). As for Pennant AW called him the biggest young talent in this country at the time.

We had Reyes watched ~40 times before deciding to go in for him, including occasions not open to the public.

So irrespective of how many games his reputation may have built on, the staff saw a lot of him and they made a judgement call.

It's easy to say in hindsight that it was a mistake, but buying players, particularly young foreign players is always a risk. When you're buying young you are paying for potential, he didn't develop in the way we hoped but that's how it is. Pay your money, roll the dice.

We sold Reyes for £6-8m after buying him for 13 so our net loss on him wasn't that great. Meh.

As for Ramsey, think he was worth the money but not necessarily what we needed and that money could have been put to better use - considering we needed a CM/CB and apparently could have gotten Alonso for 2m more (or Inler, M'Bia).

It gets even worse when you list out all those who play CM or aspire too...there's cesc, denilson, song, diaby and now nasri plus of course ramsey and then below there's merida and randall (who must be doomed) then there's lansbury, jack, Thomas, Frimpong, Coq ...the list is endless.
I seriously think Ramsey was a mistake although at the time the youth talent wasn't proven so you could see why he moved for him but we've oodles of potential in this area and ramsey frankly isn't at the top end of the list.

Part of the AW way, I guess. He buys up the most promising talent, and then if one out of 4 or 5 goes onto be something special, then he can be regarded as the mananger with the vision, while hopefully turning a profit in transfer fees on the others.

I think we have too many young players on relatively big salaries, and as others have pointed out, I'm not sure that AW's 'hit rate' on them is that much better than other managers'.

If Ramsey's not near the finished article, in the way that, say, Rooney; Cesc were at a tender age - and lets face it, it is looking that way - then £5M and his wages does seem a luxury for a club that doesn't seem that flush with cash.

Dont forget Ramsey is still young enough to play in the youth cup, which suggests he's a lot further along the line than the rest..

But not as good as Diaby or Denilson....that's the worrying bit.

Why would it be worrying for an 18 y.o. with limited first team appearances to not be as good as a 22 y.o/20 y.o. who have been playing in the first team far more?

Edit: Although, I wouldn't bet on him doing much worse than Diaby in the first team long term tbh.

Maybe not at the moment but potentially he def is. He only turned 18 on boxing day, Denilson is 21 and Diaby is 23, a lot of time to develop. Think we may see more of him next season..

I'd say the same about my pet cat, tbh

:haha: Feline grace is JUST what our midfield is lacking.

Diaby is getting worse though. He looked decent when he first arrived, then got injured, and is now turd. Ramsey can't even get in ahead of him.

Denilson is a decent squad player IMO.

My main point was we've got a million and one creative CM's all aged 18-22 why sign another one?

We need a clear out tbh.