Let's face it, for all the hype about your lot, when it comes to the business end of the season, you'll fall away, as usual, as you have done for about half a decade.

So, the blame has to be laid somewhere. At the moment, lots of you think you're in with a good shout. Which means you believe the players are good enough and the manager is the guy to get the job done.

But, the blame can only really be laid at one of, or a combination of three doors.

The owners/board.

The manager.

The players.

So, when you win nothing, what do you predict your deficiencies would have stemmed from? What would have been the major reason why your club wasnt up to the challenge?

Not enough support from the board? Bad club management making it impossible for Wenger to achieve good squad management?

The manager's fault? He's assembled a good set of players but is unable to get the best out of them?

The players just arent good enough cos they're big pansies who look nice when they're winning but if they have to get up a sweat, they cant be arsed?

0/10

Lots of words, no matter how well structured, don't make an intelligent post or point.

Jog on fella. :nanacheers:

Yeh, that's cos it was a question.

Wow, i didnt realise it was that complicated.

If we don't win anything then I'll blame Wenger, he's in charge of all things to do with the team so he has to cop the flack.

:rolleyes:

Can you people not answer a question without resorting to personal insults?

who took the blame when you lot were 4 years without a title?

Even when the question is a clear windup?

Alls I can say is lets wait and see if we can buck the trend this season. We're in a better position at this stage to win the league than we have been at any point since 2004/5, apart from 2006/7. If we don't, the buck stops with the manager.

Yeah... a totally crap question which you took great delight in answering yourself.

Dont you think that's a bit harsh considering the restrictions he's under?

I didnt answer myself at all. I gave three possibilities which i feel pretty much encompass what any answer would come from.

Do you disagree? Is there any reason why you cant simply answer or ignore the thread entirely?

No, thought not. Oh well. :)

Nope - 'cos if we win nowt, it won't be because of the quality of player available to him. It will be because of his choice of personnel and the mental frailties of his team.

You win. You've bored me away to another thread. Well played sir. :bow:

Again i think that's harsh considering the restrctions he has. I know for all intents and purposes, the manager is the guy who has to take responsibility, but it seems to be that his position is a little different to most managers (who have a chance of winning).

Yeh you seem pretty bored, with all these replies.

Still, it's easier to pretend that then get into a conversation where you might have to extend yourself. :wave:

So you do think that your team and squad is strong enough?

Cos i'm not sure how many people were saying that before you'd kicked a ball. What's changed? Obviously you've seen players improve, but what specifically?

Wind up? Why?

No I really don't, it would have been 5 years then. 5 years in which he's made a number of odd decisions and been a bit too stubborn for his own good, people will say he's had no money etc but I don't completely buy that.

We know he had money to spend last summer and he chose not to, we also know he's told us he doesn't want to kill x, y and z youngsters by signing players. I do think he's been in a fortunate position in that the club have happily settled for 4th place (though we have been a tad fortunate to get that once or twice).

Now some will say we've come close etc etc but the point is coming close isn't the same as winning, coming close every other year and not winning suggests you're doing something wrong or else you'd pick something up at some stage.

I don't really follow you. What I am saying is that IMO its not the restrictions on spending that are holding AW back. I would say that his seeming obsession with having players who lack real character is far more of a potential problem. The manager has said himself that he isn;t interested in signing players because he feels what he has is good enough. If you don't believe him, that's your prerogative, but I see no reason not to.

(And to qualify the above, I think that our manager and our club have worked miracles to more or less match Liverpool and maintain CL football while building and moving to our new stadium in some of the most challenging economic times since the war - the frustrating thing is that with the players we have another manager could wring another 20%, and a far more convincing title march out of them).

wenger is our biggest strength, but also a major weakness..he had to be blamed but at the moment he's still doing a good job, so we can close this thread

Always thought the team was capable of winning something. Even moreso now with the imrpovements in formation, the introduction of Vermaelen, and the improvements of players like Song.

The only doubt for me is our mentality.

Take the match against Utd for example. I think we showed we were good enough to win the game. What lost us the game was the mental softness, also shown against city, west ham and AZ.

But when you see them close the game out like they did on Saturday, it gives you hope.

Therefore, if you are going to blame people, it would be the players first and foremost for not learning lessons, and then the manager afterwards for allowing this attitude to continue to manifest itself in mistakes and throwing away games that were there for the taking.

...and there's noone else that would be better for the club ATM. Doesn't mean he's beyond reproach, though.

For me its Wenger because he thinks this team is strong enough to win the title and those are his words. He had the chance to add to the squad chose not to due to his faith in these players. Also the same mistakes are still being commited, conceding late goals, defense is still suspect and so on. Its his job to fix these areas and so far they are still a problem.

However our attack looks to be the best it has been in a while.

Yeh my reply before last would have made more sense then.

Yeh i think i agree to be honest.

But, and this is to Sub aswell, do you not think the players should shoulder half the responsibility for stepping up when needed. They're (for the most part) all grown men, so why do they struggle to find their heads and their feet when they're struggling most? It cant just rest with Wenger?

No entiendo.

IMO there is no doubt that this lot have the talent; there's little doubt that our frailties are as much in attitude as anything out and its clear that AW doesn't want to buy in anyone.

So how exactly are you saying that its harsh to blame the manager if we screw up again?

i think this is an interesting question in itself. When do you start to believe the players are being given all the guidance they need but simply not following it through?

And then, can you really blame the manager if he's giving his players all they need when they step onto that pitch?

You, probably :good: so if you'd like to f*ck off now you'll at least have the benefit of a good head-start.

I think you have the players to win too, no doubt, i was saying it before the season had started.

But there's something about you lot i cant quite pin down, that i think will stop you. Which is why i wondered, from the people who know most, what you guys thought that was.

I'll take my chances, old timer.

Because i wasnt previously aware you dont think he's being held back by the board.

If that's the case, then sure, it's definitely his fault.

:good: Spunky you are.

I blame Flavs personally.

OK I get you now. Personally, I think that AW has a responsibility here too. he has placed his trust in a very young and (relatively) inexperienced team who don't know how to win things. He has appointed a captain who for all his talent doesn't have what it takes to whip the team into shape when needed; and he has created a regime where players are IMO mollycoddled too much.

I maintain that if we have a SAF; or even a Moyes or a Hodgson type - they would be getting another 20% out of these players. Problem is that then we wouldn;t have the ability to forge outstanding technical talent on a shoestring, so its a catch 22. But AW has obvious flaws in the fragility of the teams he has put together since the Invincibles.

Yeh basically if you'd got in Wenger initially to be your director of football and youth development etc, with another manager, you'd probably have won everything forever.

One thing's for sure, it won't be the lasagne.

The players have to take some of the blame, but what I will say is it's usually the manager that motivates players and brings the best out of them.

There's plenty of examples around of a team who struggle to show any passion and find it hard to win under one manager and are transformed when a new manager comes in due to his different approach.

It seems to me that whilst players should be able to motivate themselves many can't an need inspiration from somewhere, in the past we had inspiration on the pitch nowadays we don't so the focus is right on the manager.

I'll also add the manager puts the squad together so if he doesn't have the right blend he has to deal with that by signing the right players (it's not all about technical ability).

Just look at your manager, he's produced team after team with a desire to win and a winning mentality..it's not just coincidence.

not sure why, if we do well but fail to win a trophy, anyone would be to blame.

(well, diaby, of course, but that goes without saying)

I guess the buck ultimately stops with the manager.

Couple of years ago when we drew at Birmingham, Clichy just lost concentration and conceded the penalty, it would be extremely harsh to blame Wenger for that.
But we had a week to pick ourselves up and beat Villa, it was a poor 0-0.
The players have to take some blame for that but it's also the manager's job to pick them up and motivate them. There was a lot of talk from the players that week about how we'd pick it up, win it for Eduardo. But we fell apart.

If we do so again this year then Wenger and the players all have to take some responsibility.

Diaby