:tumbleweed:

Am I the only a bit disappointed annoyed with lack of quality young player coming through/getting some playing time?

We have been struck by injuries, but we mostly rely on 13-14 players this season. I won't count Diaby and Denilson, because the former is not exactly young anymore and Denilson is already established. Same with Bendtner.

Ramsay's price was a bit steep to have him down as youth player.
Wilshere played 5 minutes this season.


So basically it's only Gibbs and Mannone (due to injuries to our first two keepers) getting some playing time in the league, even Vela or Traore didn't get any playing time so far

tbh I can't think of many ouf our youth prospects that excite me anyway


ManUtd have the likes of Fabio, Rafa, Macheda, Welbeck getting games. Actually 3 of them played yesterday.

Are we lacking talent or what is happening there?

I think the main difference, unfortunately for you, is that your first team is so young.

So what you lot consider to be your youngers, or players coming through, are all 12 years old. Our guys will be hitting 20 and still getting called the youth system.

Wenger is a victim of his own success in some ways.

I don't really know why you would be annoyed by it. I think it's good that we've got sufficient depth such that after a few injuries, we're not chucking players who aren't ready into the team. Apart from Ramsey (due to Diaby playing), I can't think of any other youngster who is unfairly being denied playing time...and even he is featuring in most games these days.

Yes

True, but I think that doesn't apply to our starters

Almunia - 32
Sagna - 26
Gallas - 32
Vermaelen - 24 next week
Clichy - 24
Song - 22
Fabregas - 22
Nasri - 22
RVP - 26
Arshavin - 28
Rosicky - 29

It's a young time, but it's not super young..i fact we just have 3 players unter 24

People might point to Denilson, Diaby, Bendtner but even though they are established I don't think they will be good enough to be considered starters in the near future again(Denilson proved his averageness last season..some good performances doesn't make him good)..the same applies for Walcott

It's just that I'm seeing a lack of quality young players at the moment

Wilshere should have featured more, but you basically answered your own question...even when we are struck by injuries we rely on average squad players (Diaby) and play others out of position (Eboue) instead of having some hot young players to bring in


Am I making things up? not sure myself :unsure:

Why should Wilshere play more? He might have got a chance this season but he has been injured for a while, AFAIK. Same with Vela. They are usually named on the bench when fit, but usually we're winning rather than chasing a game...so more defensively minded midfielders like Ramsey get the nod. Bendtner has been one of our better players this season, so I have no issue with him playing ahead of the inexperienced guys.

I said that Diaby was the only one I felt was getting too much playing time. I agree that Eboue shouldn't play much, but whenever he has played this season, he has done a good job. So Wenger has got that right so far.

Ramsey has played in 12 games, including all CL matches. The other youngsters get their chance in the CC.

Out of interest - are you saying that we haven't got quality youngsters or just that they're not getting enough playing time?..because you seem to be saying both which, unless you think we've got a fairly poor team, doesn't much make sense.

the first point

Well I think the reason that many youngsters aren't getting an opportunity in the first-team is not because they're not good. But they are getting less playing time compared to a season or two ago is because we've actually got decent squad depth this time around. A couple of years ago, Diaby, Bendtner or Denilson used to be our Merida and Randall, but they used to play. Now we're strong enough not to have to rely on Merida or Randall and some of the youngsters in the last couple of seasons (well, Bendtner) have worked hard and become decent players. If you're expecting our youngsters to be 'quality' players that could feature regularly, they are no longer considered youngsters by your definition. For me, they are Nasri and Fabregas.

As far as I'm concerned, it's a good thing that we're not seeing many youth players getting much playing time. I'd rather have some experience out on the pitch.

Also, about this:

...what do you mean by this? We've got Ramsey, Denilson, Gibbs and Bendtner getting games. It doesn't make them quality youngsters just because they play or make it a wise choice to give them games...especially when you don't end up winning the game.

its because eboue and the like are better than him believe it or not.

let him develop in his own time.

To the OP;

Hang on, perhaps, just perhaps, we've actually got a team that has the right blend now??

I mean, you're bemoaning the lack of youngsters getting a chance, but two years ago people were saying we didn't have enough experience.

Those youngsters from 2 years backl are now either getting regular game time, or are in the first team squad at least with bags of PL and ECL experience.

It shows that we've bought a team on. Just because some are 24-29 years old, doesn't mean its bad because the 18-22 year olds aren't getting a game.

Surely building a team based on the original youngsters was the plan in the first place, indispursed with a few buys and a few old heads.....with those who leave/are in the twilight years being replaced by our new crop now. We've got an ever self replenishing system going now....

.....and right now it seems like it's going almost to plan barring the slight mental frailty :shrug:

Get rid of some of the dross like Denilson, Eboue and Diaby and let some of the talented youngsters come through like Vela, Wilshire and Merida :run:

the first team are so young that they will remain the first team or a long time and the youth team will be sold a line about sticking around and waiting for their chance, and plied with oodles of cash to stick around (or sold for juicy fees).

Give it a few years and arse/manyoo will have gravityated towards a similar mix of old and new, and similar average age too. Both clubs re effectively converging on the same kind of setup:
-grow your own
-throw in a bit of star quality thrown in
-ship out underperformers / overpriced stars getting too big for their boots

Well Eboue is off at the end of the season. His contract runs out, and he wants to move on (so I've heard).

Diaby has this season to prove himself really......

Denilson will be here for a long time yet. And bloody right too.

Fab will be off within the next two years.

We'll doubtless sell someone in the close season for some cash (as we have done every year since the new project started).

Plenty of room for the young lads. And in the meantime, they need to be working day in day out to prove it. Not just turning up like Bentley (spit, c***)

Still can't work out how Denilson got a new contract...I really don't think he's been impressive, personally think it's a case of being one of the lucky chosen ones AW has agreed to become a 2nd dad to. :lol:

his stats were mihty impressive but also he was (I think) renewing his contract at a time when we were very short of central midfielders

:goodpost:

Everything's a little skewed due to our reliance, maybe over-reliance on the last lot of young players. Our youth system is one of the best around, simple as.

I know Rafa is bringing delight to mancs all the world over but he's really not that young

We are performing well, 3rd in the EPL with a game in hand, top of our ECL Group (this is me tempting fate) and still in the LC (not that I care about that).

What is there to be annoyed about and what should be done differently to accommodate the Youth without affecting what has been a solid performance by the team to date?

I think the youngsters, with the exception of young Gibbsy, are just too raw to feature too much yet.

Currently we have a relatively strong and coherent squad. We have the likes of Vela, Eboue, Ramsey playing the 'squad rotation' roles which gives us good strength in depth. To maintain a good harmonious balance we have enough of a gap that we do not have a flurry of youngsters pushing for first team football, and potentially leaving, everywhere. What we do have, however, are a bunch of inexperienced kids who are getting blooded in the CC, and are looking to step up in the next couple of years ... just when we will start to either need replacements, or cometition to push existing players.

Yes.

we have more strength in depth attacking wise than man utd hence we have fewer kids that can get chances there right now.

where there is space the kids get a chance, the only way for ramsey to get a shot will be for some of the spare midfielders like denilson and diaby to go ( :violin: ), for wilshere to play we'd need to lose nasri (possible), rosicky (possible), theo (possible), arshavin and our forwards at the same time, not likely.

Whilst I'd love the kids to get more chances I think it is a big positive that they can't, means we finally have enough established quality to not overly rely on them.

Not giving youth a chance is not something I thought I would hear about Arsenal for some time!

Our youth system is great IMO. We're easily the best club in the country to be at for 15-18 year olds, only United can do what we do with these players.

Doesn't matter if they're poached or not, what makes it great is that the education they get here makes them cheap, reliable squad players and packs us with depth. If one or two go on to become regular fixtures in the team then that's even better.

And if they don't make it here, then so be it. They'll be sold at a nice little profit, a lesser club will benefit from them and the players will go on to have a respectable career...everybody wins.

Look at Liverpool, Rafa has bought shit loads of young players but none of them have had a sniff at the first team coz they can't develop them like we can. Chelsea are the same.

Do you guys really think Denilson is expendable?

I actually quite like him. He's a good little player. He sort of bridges the gap between Song and Fab.

Wouldn't want him starting every game because I don't think he particularly excels in any part of his game. But he's a great player to have around as a squaddie because he keeps things simple, plays the simple pass to players who can do something special, and makes interceptions. You need players like that in a squad - the utility-type players that can do a decent job when called up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XcgMw4eGx0

:shrug:

What? are you clinically insane? a squad player? you're as deluded as Zimm.

I agree with Syn, you can do better than Denilson being first team.

like Anderson? :haha:

You tube - yeah yeah yeah (to those who will make the usual comment about that clip).

But this guy is 21 years old, and those who think he is shit know little about football.

Well indeed, but all Syn said was that he didnt seem him as a first team regular, not really the same thing...

But if you were making a wider point about everyone else, then yeh, fair enough.

I wasn't responding to Syn, though :blink:

ATM I don't think he is first team - in that there are other players who would make our strongest team before him. But he is definitely one of the players (along with Nasri; Eboue; Bendtner; Eduardo; Walcott (if ever fit); who makes the bench, and a damn useful player to have there/to rotate.

I reckon we'll ship out around 15 or the fringe / young players this summer.

Including loanees & injured - Djorrou, Simpson, JET, Lansbury, Hoyte, we'll have a squad of 45-50 who could feasibly play a CC match or be on the bench for the Premier League next season.

Once (for arguments sake) Hoyte, Randall, Barazite, Simpson, Mannone, Traore, Silvestre etc are all shipped out, the roles in the squad of Wilshere, Vela & a few others will become clearer as to where they fit in in the long term.

given that Wilshere and Vela are ahead of all those players already, why would shipping them out clarify their place in team?

Whether Barazite is a gunner won't affect Vela. It's RVP being a gunner that affects him. And we don't look to be shipping RVP out.

To be fair it's not like we've had no one. I do think more need to be given 1st team football though.

Obviously it'll be less than your lot but our academy is a new thing and takes time.

We have the most exciting youth coming up in the country. The likes of Wilshere, Ramsey, Vela, Merida, Gibbs are more than enough to wet the appetite yet some are complaining?! :rolleyes:

Yes but 3 of Fabio, Rafa, Macheda, Welbeck played in a 3-3 home trashing of CSKA Moscow.

maybe, but you have to remember that it was also a home game for the mancs

Yes but over the season you'll find that the likes of Ramsey, Gibbs et al will get more playing time.