Title: Killing Teams off / Defending
Bignev - November 5, 2009 09:45 AM (GMT)
So the goal last night was a combination of bad goalkeeping and our CB's both up front attacking a corner.
In the past we have been known to have the best of a game and not kill teams off. Is both our CB's attacking in the last 10 mins a result of this? Are we trying to kill teams off more but in doing so leaving ourselves open at the back?
I think alot of our goals this season have been down to individual errors and our defenders attacking and leaving us open. When people are in position we do generally defend quite well.
What can we do to concede less goals. Obviously buy a better keeper but is it also a case of being more rigid in keeping our defensive positions?
Maxzimus - November 5, 2009 10:07 AM (GMT)
Our CB's do attack towards the end in a lot of games, in reality they should just stay back...the other problem is we only have 3 defensive players in the team (as Adams pointed out), Gallas, Vermaelen and Song.
The rest want to attack and can't really defend, AW likes attacking players so he doesn't see a problem, trouble is it's hard to defend with so few players who are good at it.
To concede less goals we'd need to have more players stay back and we'd need a couple of full backs who can defend well, a decent keeper would be good too.
Letters (TPFKA WWTL@WHL) - November 5, 2009 10:12 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Maxzimus @ Nov 5 2009, 10:07 AM) |
| To concede less goals we'd need to have more players stay back and we'd need a couple of full backs who can defend well |
We'd score less too.
I can live with them switching off at 4-0, doing so at 1-0 as they did in the away leg is less forgivable.
Nasri Scoreng - November 5, 2009 10:16 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Letters (TPFKA WWTL@WHL) @ Nov 5 2009, 10:12 AM) |
| QUOTE (Maxzimus @ Nov 5 2009, 10:07 AM) | | To concede less goals we'd need to have more players stay back and we'd need a couple of full backs who can defend well |
We'd score less too.
I can live with them switching off at 4-0, doing so at 1-0 as they did in the away leg is less forgivable.
|
Aye. Difficult to criticise players in a game last night for wanting more action. Easier to understand exuberance when we have played like that.
Maxzimus - November 5, 2009 10:20 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Letters (TPFKA WWTL@WHL) @ Nov 5 2009, 10:12 AM) |
| QUOTE (Maxzimus @ Nov 5 2009, 10:07 AM) | | To concede less goals we'd need to have more players stay back and we'd need a couple of full backs who can defend well |
We'd score less too.
I can live with them switching off at 4-0, doing so at 1-0 as they did in the away leg is less forgivable.
|
Its fine in games against weaker teams (although we have seen we're more than capable of giving away 2 goal leads), however against better team you're not going to get 3-4 goals....it's going to be a lot tighter and getting exposed as we do is going to be much costlier.
If you let a good team in you often regret it, concentration and discipline is very important. Moreover we're not always going to see out attack at the top of it's game....when it's not the defending is very important...if we're leaving holes everywhere we're going to make it tough for ourselves.
Titles are often won at the tail end of the season by grinding out results through resilient defending and clean sheets, not convinced we can produce those displays.
Michael Westen - November 5, 2009 10:21 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Maxzimus @ Nov 5 2009, 10:20 AM) |
| QUOTE (Letters (TPFKA WWTL@WHL) @ Nov 5 2009, 10:12 AM) | | QUOTE (Maxzimus @ Nov 5 2009, 10:07 AM) | | To concede less goals we'd need to have more players stay back and we'd need a couple of full backs who can defend well |
We'd score less too.
I can live with them switching off at 4-0, doing so at 1-0 as they did in the away leg is less forgivable.
|
Its fine in games against weaker teams (although we have seen we're more than capable of giving away 2 goal leads), however against better team you're not going to get 3-4 goals....it's going to be a lot tighter and getting exposed as we do is going to be much costlier.
If you let a good team in you often regret it, concentration and discipline is very important. Moreover we're not always going to see out attack at the top of it's game....when it's not the defending is very important...if we're leaving holes everywhere we're going to make it tough for ourselves.
Titles are often won at the tail end of the season by grinding out results through resilient defending and clean sheets, not convinced we can produce those displays.
|
Yeh what he said.
Letters (TPFKA WWTL@WHL) - November 5, 2009 10:22 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Nasri Scoreng @ Nov 5 2009, 10:16 AM) |
| QUOTE (Letters (TPFKA WWTL@WHL) @ Nov 5 2009, 10:12 AM) | | QUOTE (Maxzimus @ Nov 5 2009, 10:07 AM) | | To concede less goals we'd need to have more players stay back and we'd need a couple of full backs who can defend well |
We'd score less too.
I can live with them switching off at 4-0, doing so at 1-0 as they did in the away leg is less forgivable.
|
Aye. Difficult to criticise players in a game last night for wanting more action. Easier to understand exuberance when we have played like that.
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We've all done it, if you're playing in a game and you start hammering the side you do get a bit more gung-ho and, knowing the result is secure, start bombing forward more. Yeah, they're professionals but I'm not too fussed about conceding silly goals at 4-0.
Switching off at 1-0 or failing to react when West Ham got back to 2-1 is more of a concern.
Bignev - November 5, 2009 10:23 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Nasri Scoreng @ Nov 5 2009, 10:16 AM) |
| QUOTE (Letters (TPFKA WWTL@WHL) @ Nov 5 2009, 10:12 AM) | | QUOTE (Maxzimus @ Nov 5 2009, 10:07 AM) | | To concede less goals we'd need to have more players stay back and we'd need a couple of full backs who can defend well |
We'd score less too.
I can live with them switching off at 4-0, doing so at 1-0 as they did in the away leg is less forgivable.
|
Aye. Difficult to criticise players in a game last night for wanting more action. Easier to understand exuberance when we have played like that.
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I'm not too bothered by conceding last night. I'm looking at the wider implications such as tight league/european games where we can't afford to concede goals. We don't want to get into the mindset of all out attack because that will cost us in the long run.
Having said that there a time not long ago where we posed no danger from corners. Thats been changed now with our attacking CB's. We don't want to discourage that too much. That kind of goal can be the difference in a tight game.
Elche - November 5, 2009 11:00 AM (GMT)
At 4-0 I don't care about the odd conceeded goal...because defenders switch off.
Goalkeepers, don't because they are always in and out of games, no matter what the score.
So I'm more concerned about Alumunia's and the rest of the Keepers apparant 1 error per game ratio.
Letters (TPFKA WWTL@WHL) - November 5, 2009 11:04 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Elche @ Nov 5 2009, 11:00 AM) |
| So I'm more concerned about Alumunia's and the rest of the Keepers apparant 1 error per game ratio. |
You've been talking to Zimm again, haven't you?
Sicc - November 5, 2009 11:08 AM (GMT)
I think letters has it right
switching off at 4-0 isn't as big a deal than at 1-0
also, it could be worse....we could be liverpool.
I think Theo being out has disrupted the balance a little. With his pace in the latter stages, teams would not push up as he would just destroy their back 4.
We used to do this back in the day with henry/pires and freddy.
FF4 - November 5, 2009 11:15 AM (GMT)
Bit harsh to suggest Sagna can't defend IMO.
anfield 1989 - November 5, 2009 11:48 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Letters (TPFKA WWTL@WHL) @ Nov 5 2009, 10:12 AM) |
| QUOTE (Maxzimus @ Nov 5 2009, 10:07 AM) | | To concede less goals we'd need to have more players stay back and we'd need a couple of full backs who can defend well |
We'd score less too.
I can live with them switching off at 4-0, doing so at 1-0 as they did in the away leg is less forgivable.
|
Without doubt.
But I can see AW is now getting the mentality that even on a big lead we should now be doing this and that would probably be more professional. But we DID kill them off anyway.
The last goal was pure speed, as we had men back. Almunia was doing err...something too.
CK's Korma - November 5, 2009 11:52 AM (GMT)
Against cannon fodder like last night everyone wants in the act so it's not surprised we were stretched at times.
Better to judge us on how well we can see out a game when we face a team that will force us back.
Letters (TPFKA WWTL@WHL) - November 5, 2009 11:54 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (anfield 1989 @ Nov 5 2009, 11:48 AM) |
| But I can see AW is now getting the mentality that even on a big lead we should now be doing this and that would probably be more professional. |
Hence his fury (and mine) when Eduardo cocked up his chance on Saturday.
Save me Jebus! - November 5, 2009 12:22 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (anfield 1989 @ Nov 5 2009, 11:48 AM) |
| QUOTE (Letters (TPFKA WWTL@WHL) @ Nov 5 2009, 10:12 AM) | | QUOTE (Maxzimus @ Nov 5 2009, 10:07 AM) | | To concede less goals we'd need to have more players stay back and we'd need a couple of full backs who can defend well |
We'd score less too.
I can live with them switching off at 4-0, doing so at 1-0 as they did in the away leg is less forgivable.
|
Without doubt.
But I can see AW is now getting the mentality that even on a big lead we should now be doing this and that would probably be more professional. But we DID kill them off anyway.
The last goal was pure speed, as we had men back. Almunia was doing err...something too.
|
Hit the nail on the head.
Thats why he was angry against the spuds and he got annoyed a bit last night too. He wants Song and Diaby to just sit and stop any attacks when we are 3 or 4 up and cruising.
Like he said saturday, keeping a clean sheet is important, and I think this is now what he also wants to achieve in every game.
Ach - November 5, 2009 01:03 PM (GMT)
Killing teams off has been our biggest problem for a few years.
Cost us the title in 07/08
CK's Korma - November 5, 2009 01:06 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Ach @ Nov 5 2009, 01:03 PM) |
Lack of mental strength has been our biggest problem for a few years.
Cost us the title in 07/08 |
I agree.
Syn - November 5, 2009 01:07 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Ach @ Nov 5 2009, 02:03 PM) |
Ridiculous refereeing has been our biggest problem for a few years.
Denied us a fair crack at the title in 07/08 |
I agree.
Where's My Username Gone? - November 5, 2009 06:10 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Letters (TPFKA WWTL@WHL) @ Nov 5 2009, 12:04 PM) |
| QUOTE (Elche @ Nov 5 2009, 11:00 AM) | | So I'm more concerned about Alumunia's and the rest of the Keepers apparant 1 error per game ratio. |
Shut up Elche!
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:goodpost:
Michael Westen - November 6, 2009 10:34 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Syn @ Nov 5 2009, 01:07 PM) |
| QUOTE (Ach @ Nov 5 2009, 02:03 PM) | Ridiculous refereeing has been our biggest problem for a few years.
Denied us a fair crack at the title in 07/08 |
I agree.
|
That was funny.
I bet some people actually believe it too.
Whatever - November 6, 2009 10:44 AM (GMT)
we are still bottlers..we are doing it when we're 4 up, when 2 up, when 1 up..average fullbacks and goalie don't help
Maxzimus - November 6, 2009 10:44 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Save me Jebus! @ Nov 5 2009, 12:22 PM) |
| QUOTE (anfield 1989 @ Nov 5 2009, 11:48 AM) | | QUOTE (Letters (TPFKA WWTL@WHL) @ Nov 5 2009, 10:12 AM) | | QUOTE (Maxzimus @ Nov 5 2009, 10:07 AM) | | To concede less goals we'd need to have more players stay back and we'd need a couple of full backs who can defend well |
We'd score less too.
I can live with them switching off at 4-0, doing so at 1-0 as they did in the away leg is less forgivable.
|
Without doubt.
But I can see AW is now getting the mentality that even on a big lead we should now be doing this and that would probably be more professional. But we DID kill them off anyway.
The last goal was pure speed, as we had men back. Almunia was doing err...something too.
|
Hit the nail on the head.
Thats why he was angry against the spuds and he got annoyed a bit last night too. He wants Song and Diaby to just sit and stop any attacks when we are 3 or 4 up and cruising.
Like he said saturday, keeping a clean sheet is important, and I think this is now what he also wants to achieve in every game.
|
It's not just Song and Diaby...you often see Vermaelen and Gallas heading for our opponents penalty area late into games. Whilst it's great when it comes off, if we're leading there's no need for it.
Gooner in Nipon - November 6, 2009 11:05 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Letters (TPFKA WWTL@WHL) @ Nov 5 2009, 10:12 AM) |
| QUOTE (Maxzimus @ Nov 5 2009, 10:07 AM) | | To concede less goals we'd need to have more players stay back and we'd need a couple of full backs who can defend well |
We'd score less too.
I can live with them switching off at 4-0, doing so at 1-0 as they did in the away leg is less forgivable.
|
point taken!
4-nil up is indeed an enviable position to be in....
but not a position in which we can always feel comfortable to be in.....there have been times
remember Spurs last year, agreed not 4 to the good but looking as if we were cruising and then.....somebody turned off the lights and 'bang' self destruct!!!
lets just hope those days are gone.... :ninja: