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KOEI Warriors (Forum) > Sengoku Era > Most Decisive Battles



Title: Most Decisive Battles
Description: Sengoku version


Xalfrea - January 17, 2008 01:47 PM (GMT)
After SlickSlicer did one in the Three Kingdoms thread, I figured the Sengoku thread deserves one too.

Now looking at it, battles like Nagashino and Sekigahara definitely fall under that category, but lets see everyone else's opinion.

digorthiss - January 17, 2008 02:32 PM (GMT)
Battle of Osaka castle would be one i guess seeming Ieyasu won complete control over Japan as a result.

gtowneupho1 - January 17, 2008 02:43 PM (GMT)
Hmmm...I think Mikatagahara was pretty decisive. I mean it could've meant the end for Tokugawa had Tadakatsu not been there.

LoW - January 17, 2008 04:56 PM (GMT)
Yamazaki - Mitsuhide was killed and Japan was without a leader, once again.

Odawara - Although much fightning wasn't included, the Hojo were the last threat for Hideyoshi's rule. After their defeat, the Japan was finally united.

King Of Wei - January 17, 2008 04:58 PM (GMT)
Nagashino = Because all the takeda forces got annihilated on that battle :huh: Actually I can't remember which battle where all the takeda got annihilated.

Red Knight - January 17, 2008 05:20 PM (GMT)
Battle of Okehazama- This battle stopped the Imagawa's advance on Kyoto permanently. If the Oda lost, the Imagawa would have gotten to Kyoto and Yoshimoto would have made himself Shogun

Honnoji- Though a "small" battle, it was important nonetheless. This battle resulted in the deaths of Oda Nobunaga and Oda Nobutada and Mori Ranmaru. Mitsuhide declared himself Shogun afterwards, Shogunate lasted 13 days.

drewthedude - January 17, 2008 07:55 PM (GMT)
For me, I'd say the battle of Sekigahara was the most decisive. This battle ended the Sengoku period, and it also put the rise of what would change Japan's future forever being the Edo period.

Xalfrea - January 18, 2008 07:11 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (King Of Wei @ Jan 17 2008, 04:58 PM)
Nagashino = Because all the takeda forces got annihilated on that battle :huh: Actually I can't remember which battle where all the takeda got annihilated.

That battle is the Battle of Temmokuzan. I think it happened a couple of weeks before Honnoji.


snipe601 - January 18, 2008 01:51 PM (GMT)
Honnoji- had nobunaga not killed in this event he wud have conquered whole of japan.

And i would also like to say that okehazama, mikatagahara and sekigahara are important ones.

Shogun - January 20, 2008 01:46 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (snipe601 @ Jan 18 2008, 01:51 PM)
Honnoji- had nobunaga not killed in this event he wud have conquered whole of japan.

And i would also like to say that okehazama, mikatagahara and sekigahara are important ones.

I wouldn't exactly label Honnoji a battle, all Mitsuhide did was abandon the task he was given of reinforcing Hideyoshi at Chugoku and turn his forces towards Kyoto, surround Nobunaga while he was unprepared in a temple, and forced him to kill himself.

snipe601 - January 20, 2008 03:07 PM (GMT)
Well nobunaga did put some resistance towards the rebellion. So there were some fighting in the event and a battle is still a battle.

Legacy Warrior - January 20, 2008 06:51 PM (GMT)
Nagashino: Where the legendary Takeda Calvary met its Demise

Honnoji: When Japan was split up once more

Shogun - January 21, 2008 11:52 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (snipe601 @ Jan 20 2008, 03:07 PM)
Well nobunaga did put some resistance towards the rebellion. So there were some fighting in the event and a battle is still a battle.

But he didn't have enough time to maneuver, what is resistance when you already know that you're definitely going to die?

snipe601 - January 21, 2008 03:43 PM (GMT)
At least he fought till the very end even though its a definite defeat for nobunaga. Not to mention even his retainers fought even though they know their fate is sealed.

Shogun - January 21, 2008 04:52 PM (GMT)
That's the point, he wasn't able to fight, hence the suicidal death of Nobunaga. It wasn't a battle, it was a quick ending revolt with a whole army against (probably) some unprepared guards.

scottyd - January 21, 2008 10:23 PM (GMT)
Yamazaki if had a different result would of changed everything

Xalfrea - January 22, 2008 01:01 AM (GMT)
People must remember that Honnoji was never technically a full fledged battle with strategies and massive troops. It was just a quiet, simple uprising that wasn't revealed to the rest of Japan until 11 days later.

Another battle (or battles) I feel is decisive is Komaki-Nagakute.

LoW - January 22, 2008 04:35 PM (GMT)
I wouldn't call Komaki-Nagakute as decisive battle. It was more like a small skirmish between Ieyasu and Hideyoshi to determine who is the strongest warlord in the land. Even if Ieyasu had won the battle, he wouldn't have started a campaign with Hideyoshi.

Shogun - January 22, 2008 06:51 PM (GMT)
It was a big conflict, but the combat itself that was involved in the battle was nothing more than a skirmish. Both forces were so cautious, there was more maneuvering than there was fighting.

gtowneupho1 - January 23, 2008 01:21 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (LoW @ Jan 22 2008, 10:35 AM)
I wouldn't call Komaki-Nagakute as decisive battle. It was more like a small skirmish between Ieyasu and Hideyoshi to determine who is the strongest warlord in the land. Even if Ieyasu had won the battle, he wouldn't have started a campaign with Hideyoshi.

I agree. It wasn't really a battle battle, if you know what I mean. All it really did is serve as another thing to make Honda more famous IMO.

Shogun - January 23, 2008 03:18 AM (GMT)
Though I believe the Tokugawa were capable of defeating the Toyotomi, they had a lot of time to do so, plus, the Hojo got there back.

snipe601 - January 23, 2008 03:54 AM (GMT)
All i do know about that event was that the tokugawa draw with hideyoshi in komaki and then defeated the toyotomi in nagakute. Then hideyoshi signed a peace treaty with tokugawa.

LoW - January 23, 2008 03:58 PM (GMT)
Ieyasu managed to defeat Ikeda and Mori troops at Nagakute, but he never claimed total victory since he decided to withdraw. Hideyoshi did the same thing (although he was going to arrive with reinforcements) since they both realised that the whole battle was just a waste of resources and men.

snipe601 - January 24, 2008 05:39 AM (GMT)
Anyway i heard there was a fight between the miyoshi and matsunaga hisahide in Todaiji temple or something like that. Did that really happen and was it significant?

Shogun - January 24, 2008 11:21 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (snipe601 @ Jan 24 2008, 05:39 AM)
Anyway i heard there was a fight between the miyoshi and matsunaga hisahide in Todaiji temple or something like that. Did that really happen and was it significant?

Not in Todaiji temple, just around the Sakai area, and that was where the temple was located. Matsunaga burned the temple down.

DarkDante - January 26, 2008 10:32 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (snipe601 @ Jan 24 2008, 05:39 AM)
Anyway i heard there was a fight between the miyoshi and matsunaga hisahide in Todaiji temple or something like that. Did that really happen and was it significant?

They fought a whole heap of battles against each other with victories on both sides but there was never any real advantage gained by either.

SlickSlicer - February 2, 2008 02:40 AM (GMT)
Be careful with what you label as decisive battles, guys.

The siege of Osaka wasn't one battle. In fact, it wasn't even one campaign. The most decisive battle during the Summer Osaka Campaign was the Battle of Tennoji. I've seen some people contend that it was even more decisive than Sekigahara, but I don't necessarily agree or disagree with this.

There was a siege of Odawara as well, but there were also sieges of several other Hojou outposts during Hideyoshi's Kanto Campaign that may have had an effect on Hideyoshi's siege of Odawara. Hideyoshi's Kanto Campaign as a whole wasn't one battle either, of course.

Nagakute also wasn't decisive in the least. At Nagakute, Toyotomi forces were defeated, but the defeat was completely minor. Moreover, the Oda clan member that Ieyasu had allied with shortly afterwards made peace with the Toyotomi, thus making the Tokugawa's victory completely void of a decisive result. If anything, Hideyoshi had the advantage in the long-run against the Tokugawa, assuming Ieyasu had continued to resist. The Hojou, Chosokabe, and other soon to be Toyotomi enemies had not yet decided on supporting either side as well.

Edit-Also, Honnoji wasn't really a battle at all. I mean, I guess you could say it was a battle, but it would kind of be misleading. The Oda had no chance of winning because the only people at Honnoji were Nobunaga, Ranmaru (I think), and a few guards. Nobutada was at Nijo at the time and was killed as well.




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