What is your opinion?

I honestly think that we should go on with it. You know... if you're young, you can always have another baby or you could always adopt. I don't mean to sound like "GAH KILL BABIES!" but honestly, if I had a choice of giving up my embryo to help with a research that would potentially save millions of life vs the one I carried. I'd do it.

Dead babies have nothing better to do so they might as well go towards helping people instead of the garbage can.

Garbage? Those need to be posted straight onto Ebay. :ese:

I agree though, we kill--or whatever term you want to use--tons of unborns every day, they might as well be doing something useful. The only problem would be if that research companies might actually pay quite a bit for them and then that causes some other problems that we shouldn't have to deal with.

^What she said.

I don't think any of us can really comment on this though, because I don't think any of the women here can really understand what it feels like to have a life growing inside of them, a life that should have been created by love. I guess if you were a victim of rape, it would be a different story, but that most likely isn't going to happen to any of us (the women, anyway), so it shouldn't really factor in anyway.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that women in general have a maternal instinct that kicks in when they're pregnant/with child that says "I need to protect this stinky, annoying, loud thing until it can live on it's own."

But then why are women still aborting if that's the case?

If people wanna kill dead babies that's none of my concern.

Yeah, you'll never have to worry about it anyways.



Ohhh snap.

Well, I think it's fair to say that some people have a twisted sense of reality. Or maybe that isn't fair. But regardless, some people just don't really understand what life and love are all about. Like, I wouldn't want to be the one to convince one of the abortioners why they shouldn't abort their baby.

I don't claim to know what either life or love is about, but I know abortion shouldn't be a part of it.

Why do people abort? Well, first of all, ask why they abort? Because they decided to do an action that would cause the baby to grow in the first place. They should realise that if they have sex, they need to own up to their mistakes and take responsibility. I hear them say "Its my body", ya? Well you are the one that messed it up in the first place. Why should someone else pay for it? In this case, an unborn child. Did you know that if a murderer killed a woman with a child in her, he would have only killed one person under the current laws for human rights But under these same right, if he tore the baby out of her womb it would be considered two murders. Why?

Another thing to think about, why is it only sad when the parents want the child and the child dies, yet many don't take a second look when they purposefully kill the child that’s unwanted? The way I see it, you should be given two choices, either keep the kid or give it up for adoption. The only reason why the baby should ever be purposefully killed is if the mother will die.

There has also been research on the effects on the mothers health later in life after her child was aborted. Breast cancer was found to be very common among them. They concluded that because the mother’s body had been spending months to prepare this baby, the whole process had been suddenly stopped. In biology, you learn that different chemicals build up the uterus and basically develops a living space for this child. This large build up being stopped suddenly can’t go without some sort of ill effect. This is very unnatural and abortion not only kills a life, it has ill effects that are still being researched on today.

No one can really decide who dies or not. Here’s a point to ponder: Many of the immoral and devastating experiments we fought against in WW2 we are now doing today.WW2 we are now doing today?

A woman's body changes drastically after having a baby, if she doesn't want that change then she should abort.

The thing that people don't get is that a woman is programmed to have sex, it's very hard to go against your instincts. We're still animals, we need to fuck okay. If she does all she can to prevent a baby, then I don't see it as wrong to abort it, unless the baby is already more than a month old.

Also, it's sad when a baby dies from a parent that wanted it because they wanted it. It's a failure. They tried, they failed, it died, that's always sad. When you abort a baby, it's a correction of an error. That's not sad.

And even if your body is preparing for a baby, you can say the same thing about the millions of women who have miscarriages. Some have multiple miscarriages.

Let's face it, if the baby is one month old, it is hardly a baby. It would still be an embryo. You don't actually become a FETUS until EIGHT WEEKS after a zygote is formed. The first thing that happens when a zygote forms (the unification of two haploid cells) is mitosis. Mitosis occurs until you have a ball of cells called the blastula. That usually becomes your mouth. And mitosis occur over and over again until you have what begins to be a fetus and then it stills continues over and over again until birth. Mitosis never stops.

So... until after eight weeks, you're really just a ball of cells. That I don't see why people make a fuss over. >_> Sure, it's inhumane to kill a baby after eight weeks, because it has already started breathing, because by then, it is a living, breathing organism. But before that? Sure, the blastula has the POTENTIAL to become a baby, but it is still JUST a ball of cells. And really, I'd rather people NOT bring children into the world if they didn't want them and won't discipline them and care for them.

Really, if we're going to discuss abortion now. I think it is circumstantial. People are going to abort if they want to. You can't stop them. If you make it illegal, then they'll do it with a coathanger in the back of some witch's house. So, you mind as well have it where people can do it safely.

Really, why we make such a fuss over killing unborn babies and not about the trees we're chopping down in the Amazon that makes 75% of our oxygen or the animals that we're killing that keeps the food chain in check is beyond me. I'd rather have enough oxygen for everyone than an unborn baby.

Kinda like kids and sex.

They're gunna do it, so why not just hand out the condoms instead of them showing up preagnant or with some sort of preventable STD?

We are different from animals, We have conscious thought, self-control and will. We decide upon what we do.

True, due to the basic nature of humans with the drive to procreate we are driving to reproduce to keep the species alive. But it is with our self control that we difference ourselves with animals. We have the choice to hold off cravings and desires, while animals just fight over who gets to fuck the lady.

If you just want to admit to being no better than an animal and fuck all day, then it you own damned fault for not doing better and withholding. If you want to make something of it, then you keep yourself in check, be a human.

Okay, what is this ball of cells then? If it is not human, when does it become human? Since I must be uneducated or something, please pinpoint the time, the day, the hour, the second that they become humans. Technically we are still "just a ball of cells".

Am I human yet? I look liike one, maybe I am human when I become a teen because of puberty. Thats when I am finally able to procreate. That means I should not have rights. Maybe I can even stop being human. I will probably loose most of my manly functions after a certain age, shooting blanks so to speak. You say abortion is okay, but it is only a current phenomena. What of technology before, they had to actually live up to their mistakes and not just kill the kid. Are people afraid of their own mistakes, enough to remove the life of it? How is wanting it and not wanting it any different? Just because you don't want someone, doesn't mean you kill them.

How is "correcting an error" a justifiable reason? When does it have its limits? Only "things" and not people. I might as well kill children, if they were an accident. Then then next question, Your dead. You never lived. You were aborted, so what? I never knew you so I don't care. I could say I care now, but if you are not there than you are not there? A member of this forums parents could have chosen to aborted 'em. Did they? No, I could not imagine a life without this persons crazy humor and clear presence. One life makes a very, very huge impact. We lost most of our generation to abortion. Is there consequences, regardless to what media tends to shove in the ignorant minds of the viewers, yes, very much so.

With Nicks point, we are not just animals. It is funny to think that an animal could create all this technology purely on instinct. It is crazy to think that we have developed languages purely on instinct. We have developed complex and intricate cultures with music, sports, architectures, and religion purely on instinct. Apparently all animals question its existence one way or another instead of finding its next meal. Apparently they sit down and fight each other whether they evolved vs created by some sort of higher power. I also find it weird how there are many people who can with hold themselves from "fucking". What does that mean? They are not human than? Do you know how hard it is holding back from every temptation, It is very tough. But guess what? Its possible, that must mean its not purely instinct if such a thing is possible.

Did you know that I am not a tree. I think its very neat. I don't seem to have bark, roots, or even leaves. I find it very crazy, and even barbaric, to care for my race more than anything else on the world! Why? Because, though it might be a very big stretch for many of you tree huggers who want to be trees (or are already), I actually care what happens to members of my own race. Something called not being selfish and being a responsible member of it or something to those lines. If you don't like it, cut yourself off, we don't want your kind lingering around filling our heads with your filth. I care more about the injustice to the poorest people on the planet than about the trees being cut down by people. I would rather die beside you instead of you trying to make trees have more rights than people. The way I see it, your argument is two fold, they are not people. I am going to chop them down and build houses out of their corpses because I know oxygen will not run out for another few lifetimes. Plus, were did you hear your statistics? I see them change all the time. Is it 60%? 70%? I have even seen 90%. I just wish green people would make up their minds about these "facts" already.

I wouldn't say no abortions for anyone, because how am I going to stop you, but I myself would never ever get an abortion.

Shut up, you can't stop people from having abortions. Lecturing people about it is about the worst thing you can do.

edit: obviously not directed at the directly above post

Of course I can't stop it, I am not saying I can. But the only way to go against another persons point is to use their points against them, try and disprove their points. Its called an arguement. Each side presents its information, then they start trying to disprove eachother using sources and reason. Without this "lecturing" there is no point on this discussion at all. You don't argue against their "lecturing" and you try and beat down mine without adding to the discussion. Quit your complaining and actually contribute to the discussion. If you don't like what I say, don't say "shut up", say "I disagree with your view, [insert reason here]." Then at least we got some sort of educational and informative information being passed to one another.

I don't know about other people, but I want every single one of my points disproved. Then I know that people are actually taking this seriously and not just spouting out opinion, they have done research. If they can do this than I got myself a challenge. That would mean I would have to do the same and do more research. Very fun really.

Ohh ya, I would like to also go back to the 75% thing, it is not trees in the amazon that make our air. It makes about, using statistics, 5% or so of the air we breath. It is really the plankton in the ocean that makes most of the air.

I don't know why I'm bothering because abortion is based on opinion, not facts.

A baby is a ball of cells for a month. It doesn't even have a neural tube to form into a brain, let alone a brain at all. I didn't say it was a human, it's merely a 'could be' human. I don't believe in babies having a soul right at conception. Even if they did, very frequently the egg isn't able to implant into the wall, and the fertilized egg is flushed out.

Abortion is not a current phenomena.

"Abortion, in some form, has existed in the human race for millennia. Ancient tribes would sometimes be forced to move quickly, and pregnant women could slow the entire tribe down. Abuse of the woman's abdomen, and later abuse through excessive horseback riding, could cause the baby to be born prematurely. This baby was then either killed or left to die. Unfortunately, the mother also frequently died during the birthing."

The difference between wanting a child and not wanting a child is the entire wanting part.

Wrong. Very very very wrong. Try to prove yourself right.

With Nick's point, yes, we are animals, we are simply more advanced animals. We are taught everything we do now. If we were born in the wild, (some good examples are Wild Childs, go google it) we would act more animalistic regardless of our human heritage.

Human is a type of animal, so you cannot say anyone is an animal and not a human if their species is human. Yes, we act different and are more restrained(with fear) than animals but biologically we are animals with the exact same instincts. We're simply advanced animals.

Animals have languages, just not as complex. My birds talk to each other all the time. Woody can speak english. When he says "Pretty bird" it means "give me my sock so I can rub myself on it."

Also, the fact that you imply that sex is not instinct just blows my mind. If you were all alone on an island since you were very young, you'd still have sexual urges. It's not something you are exposed to, it's something you are programmed with, therefore it's instinct. Yes, it's possible to resist those urges. The will to survive is instinct, yet some people are still able to blow their brains out with a gun. That doesn't mean it's not instinct.

I'd like to note that I'm neutral about abortion. I don't care. If I get pregnant, I'm not going to abort it. There's a lot of different options, giving it up for adoption being the best. I'd probably keep it, though.

Firstly, When did Nick(I am Hey_dude >:( ) imply that sex was not instinct, He actually enforces that by saying "the basic nature of humans with the drive to procreate".

And while animals are technically a life form and we are a part of that too, there is a distinct difference in moral choices and willpower. People choose to make unhealthy food for sale, even though they are destroying people, because they want to follow the basic 'American Dream' (Just the title of the dream, nothing biased against Americans...yet.) of material growth and status to be 'successful in life'.

'sides, my Christian ethics teacher always said "Save sex fro marriage, then it will be really special because it will actually mean something then." I don't really like Him, his class, or the whole idea in general.

but to get to topic, I believe abortion to be okay. Personally, I think of the world as too overpopulated as is. I would like to see, sometime in the future, The populace being spread through certain "less dense" areas of the world. But we still have more people than necessary. Criminals, hobos, people who have nothing to contribute to their society have no place amongst those in their society. This may sound cruel and unjust, but it's my honest opinion.

ah, no I didn't mean you, I meant matthew. He said

Abortions epitomize modern human behavior. "I don't have to be careful, science can fix anything that may go wrong". Bullshit. Before I go on I want to make clear I am all for abortions since there are cases where they are justified and are understandable. But damn, they are abused and a sad reflection. No matter if we have natural instincts to have sex we also have common sense and awareness. In clear thought we all in the first world know that contraceptives are available, easily and are designed to cause as little disruption as possible. With abortions being so openly available women (sorry, but my point extends to them since men would act the same whether abortions were legal or not since we are assholes) are more prone to not think about the consequences of unprotected sex. They know they have abortions to fall back on. They know that they can have their error fixed by science and technology in a matter of minutes regardless of how much of their fault it was that they got pregnant.

Modern man has always preached about peace among each other but has always failed to produce such a promise. Killing happens everyday, children, adults, the born and the unborn are killed in the name of "justice" everyday for a reason that probably they didn't care for. Modern warfare is not what it once was. Starting the 20th Century the most dangerous place to be in war time is at home. This of course appalls us all. Innocent people shouldn't die for the convenience of some leader or ideal. But as appalling as this is, the death of innocent humans, they are outside our "monkey sphere". We don't know who they are, we would most definitely never have met them, they didn't exist to us until such as tragedy occurred. They might as well never have been born...

You can probably guess where I'm going with this but I'll go on. An unborn baby is no different than that unfortunate child/adult who was blown up by a bomb or cruelly tortured to death by an enemy they could not fight. Both lots of humans never had a chance. It wasn't their fault, they didn't ask to be killed, they didn't even ask to be born or part of the conflict to begin with. The fault lies with the parent/leader who was careless enough to let this happen. Whether or not you believe that life starts in the womb or life starts once you are out is pretty irrelevant. If you are shocked by a stranger dying, you cannot pretend to not be shocked at the amount of abortions that happen daily through out the world. The world is a cruel place, I will most definitely be the one to keep reminding you that and terrible things do happen. Rape happens, and getting pregnant from rape happens. That is why we need abortions.

Hm... I'm tired now and sorry if what I've said has been said before this thread is too wordy for my liking. Big blocks of text kill my eyes.

Er... you don't breathe while you are a blastula, what the blastula becomes is your mouth in most mammals. Sure, every single cell has the POTENTIAL to BECOME a heart, lungs, etc. However, the cells at that point don't even have a specific function. A blastula becomes "human" when it becomes a fetus, and that's AFTER the first trimester.

I didn't say abortion is okay, it is a choice and it is optional. You can't tell a mother, who's dying from her fetus, that she can't abort. It's medical. 100% of the time, even in hospitals, they kill the fetus. Mothers can always have another baby. You lose one life if you kill the fetus, if you don't, you lose two.

And really... at the rate we're populating the Earth, we really DON'T need anymore babies. If we have even more kids, the Earth is eventually going to run out of resources for all of us, and we'd have to die anyway.

Regarding the bit about the trees, I'm saying we shouldn't be cutting down tress because:

1.) You're distroying the natural habitat of many species, therefore, killing said species
2.) There's not much of the tropical rain forest left in the world, and we should do all we can to conserve it

How is it selfist to care for your environment? It's great that you care about the human race, but all organisms on the earth are interrelated and we all depend on each other. So, you have to care not only for the human race but for the entire ecosystem as well.

And how can you say that we're not animals? We are too. We evolved from apes who are certainly animals. Hence, we are animals, unless we're plants.

Yes, we have developed technology that other species haven't been able to achieve, but who is to say that other animals are stupid? To think that dolphins and monekys have lived so many years more than us... they're definitely not stupid. We know things like technology, but they know how to survive. Animals live and survive in the savanna. I think that's FAR more important that knowing how to turn on a computer.

I feel that your opinions are strongly influenced by religion. It's so... "Good Catholic Boy" material, you know, "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" material.

Exactly! Especially since 1 in 7 women get raped.

Hmm... now how many girls are on this forum? ;)

To remark to queenies last line:

I think abortions should be forced to be carried out by a rusty coat hanger, two extra strength painkillers and a bottle of whiskey.

Just to make sure the woman wants to get rid of it.

That's another thing, if you don't let women have abortions it doesn't really mean they won't. You might as well have a safe way to do it.

Exactly my point!

you've never actually seen pictures of abortions have you? If you saw what those babies looked like, you would never call them embryos and cells. They're babies.














Looks like a tiny human, doesn't it?

All of those babies are several months old and have limbs. The first picture looks like the baby is 8 months old!! If you get an abortion when the baby is months old you're seriously retarded. The quote you quoted said "until after eight weeks, you're really just a ball of cells." but none of these pictures show babies under 8 weeks old. A baby that is 8 weeks old is only the size of a kidney bean, and even I think that 8 weeks is too late to abort it. There's just no excuse to not have an abortion under 4 weeks.

When a baby is aborted that late it's surgically done. If it's before 8 weeks you simply take two pills and your body flushes it out.

I honestly don't think it is humane to abort a baby if it already has limps and a structure.

And I honestly don't think abortion requires the amputation of limps if done correctly. Those pictures look as if someone stuck some kind of knife up their womb.

lol 4chan time

the last picture is from the first trimester.

That picture is still taken after 8 weeks.

Can someone say internet drama.

I don't want to add to the drama any more but I really agree with Zangk. Abortion is wrong at any time, unless in a case of rape or the endangerment of a life.

My opinonis that life shouldn't be classified scientifically, depending on parts and cells. Look at someone and tell me what makes them living: heart? brain? It's more than that and you should know that. All parts aside an eight week old fetus and an eight month old fetus are the same in my eyes.

I also think humans are what they are because of self-control. Sex drive shouldn't be an excuse for anything. We're better than that.

We all need to grow a little more. This can't make sense to us until we have actually experienced life. Once you hold your own child it'll make more sense.

I don't understand how a child's life is less valuable just because the girl got forcefully impregnated. How is abortion okay then? It's still a human.

I think whether you believe in it or not it comes back to this point, and then if you really care about human life or whatever you'll agree that its a lot fucking safer for a professional to preform an abortion with the correct tools than for someone to do it on their own and likely mutilating their own body.

That doesn't mean in my opinion that you can't try to tell people that its wrong, or maybe educate them about the facts (if you actually know anything) but I don't think you should take that right away from them... because you can't really--you only take away their right to have it done in a hospital.

Now, another issue would be if the government should be paying for it. Obviously the US that's a non-issue, but here in Canada (and the UK too I think :???:) it is a government funded operation. Is that right? It seems like maybe in cases where the baby is really no threat to the mother's life that it should be her responsibility to cover that procedure.

I saw a movie where this lady went around performing backroom abortions on girls because abortion was illegal. She put soap in some water, stuck it up their vaginas, and pumped the soapy water in. All the girls died :P.

I'm pretty sure here in Canada you have to pay for it out of your own pocket. I know a girl that had an abortion and I think it cost her several hundred dollars. It probably depends on the province, though.

Stem cell research is not funded by U.S. government.

What she said.

I don't get why people HAVE to abort rape babies?

Someone said to me that it's because everytime they look at the child they'll think of the rape. It's not the kids fault, why not give it up for adoption?

Adoption, adoption, adoption.

They don't have to.

I just think it should be optional. You can't eliminiate abortion completely. It should be optional.